Would be funny only if Mohammad Salah was aware that Egypt wasn’t always inhabited by Arabs, but by lots of different people and ethnicities. Arab Muslims just conquered and colonized Egypt, they just colonize differently than Europeans.
Is there a time period I could research for when Arab Muslims conquered Egypt?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_conquest_of_Egypt
It was pretty quick, just 639 to 642. The western half of the Roman Empire had already collapsed and the eastern half wasn’t doing much better.
Thank you for the reference!
Iirc it was the Abbasid Caliphate that was the first Muslims to take over Egypt. The 1000 years prior or so, it’d been Roman territory (Byzantine after the fall of Western Rome, but same difference)
Thank you for the reference!
The Muslims conquered land and replaced its government, they did not murder and replace their entire population. This is why countries like Somalia are filled with black people who are Muslims and not Arabs.
Mohamed Salah has Egyptian ancestry. He is not a random Arab Muslim claiming that Egypt was Arab.
Settler colonization and replacing everything with ‘superior white people’ is a rather modern European tradion
To colonise doesn’t mean to murder and entirely replace an ENTIRE population.
But keep on putting everything except European conquest and colonisation into perspective, you’re good at it.
Does Europe have any culture that isn’t stolen or brutality forced on others?
Greece is in Europe.
So is Rome, but that’s a terrible example after mentioning Greece.
Pre-christian pagan cultures (Celts, Goths etc), but neo-nazis are also fans of those so you get to share with them.
Europe, yes. Britain, doubtful.
Highlander detected
Isn’t the idea of museums that you can learn about other cultures without going there?
Except the British museum where you do have to go there to experience their culture of theivery
No, the majority are about specific history or culture, usually local. Natural History Museum covers nature, Science Museum covers science, Leeds museum covers the history of the city of Leeds, Crab museum covers worker’s movements. The British museum is really the Stuff The British Stole museum.
If it’s on-loan, sure.
But this was straight up thievery.
holy shit I should totally call my apartment a museum so I can steal anything I want
Can’t believe this hasn’t been posted yet…
Oy oy savoy
*saveloy
This. Is. Perfect.
And the girl in the back on the original post photo, looking like this below meme photo. LoL
Since I don’t see much football stuff on Lemmy, this is Mohammed Salah, an Egyptian footballer and premier league royalty. YNWA
What does YNWA stand for/mean?
You’ll Never Work Again
It’s something the Dunmer often say.
You’ll Never Walk Alone. It’s liverfool football club’s motto. They sing it at every game. People get it tattooed.
Thanks!
“You Newly Woke Ally”?
Will he burn if there’s crosses in the Museum?
Can someone explain the reactionary joke I’m missing here, what does this mean.
You see, when football is mentioned online, the collective intelligence of any comment section is cut by at least 90%. This stacks with another 90% if it’s women’s football or any token LGBT acknowledgement in football. The joke is Muslim Bad.
Which is a shame. I used to make fun of le sportsball amirite until it clicked that there was immense entertainment value in these matches, which could be super tense and exciting even when an individual match doesn’t have super high stakes. There’s storylines with each of the players and managers, there’s a lot of diverging personalities among them and they all handle the same game in their own way. And unlike scripted shows, when something unexpected happens it is so much more interesting. Like the story is real in a way that scripted entertainment isn’t.
storylines with each of the players and managers
Maybe that’s what some people are missing! Those who think the pitch is too big, it’s too slow, goals too infrequent, whatever the common gripes are.
Football is one of the most scripted sports ever. I mean just look at Polish league for example, le huge sponsor arrives, puts locally large sum of money into some really shit team in 3rd league which barely existed for last 80 years due to persistence of local schoolteachers and suddenly boom, in 2 seasons that club is winning country championship.
The only real sports remaining are those that do not have money in it.
You have expressed my feelings excellently. I find football a very entertaining sport (not that I have the money to watch it, or the time / energy / social media connections to keep very up to date with it) but the fanbase can be absolutely braindead.
I mean, I love rivalries and some shithousery, but things escalate too often, too much, and too quickly.
Still, wish I knew of ways that would allow me to keep up to date with stuff without costing me a good chunk of change or a huge amount of time, or having to have a twatter account or whatnot.
umm, piracy bro. Pirating sports streams or torrents is an ancient practice, check out [email protected] their megathread, ask their or check out the freemediaheckyeah site (you find it on their subreddit).
for news I use an arabic site called Kooora I don’t know what English site is popular, using a British free VPN you can view youtube videos of highlights from their local channels, they make these highlights cuz they hold copyrights.
I’m not urging you to watch football, just that not having money isn’t a reason not to do so.
Huh?
Nah, he doesn’t really care. He even celebrates Christmas with his family
Why would he not celebrate Santas birthday?
Everything belongs to everyone because our ancestors were here first.
Time to plug one of my favorite podcasts: Stuff the British Stole
Needs a French version as well, they still allow active trade of stolen native objects.
funny for an Egyptian man to say this, considering that it was made by black people not Arabs. If such things went by blood then and culture then South Sudan would have the strongest claim to it, its like saying that art by ancient indigenous americans belongs to an amerikkkan only difference is time.
If you look at any of the ancient statues they don’t look black, whatever the recent propaganda tries to push. It doesn’t make any sense to put everyone in those four racial boxes - an Ethiopian looks as distinct from a South African as a Spaniard and a Swede
Is there some sort of debate about the origin of museum pieces thats been going on?
Right, the later pharaos were often greek.
a clear lack of historical knowledge. plenty of the statue do have black features, they stop having black features first in lower Egypt and then much latter in upper Egypt, because there was a migration from asia/arabia and europe into Africa the vast majority of what we think of as ancient Egypt was created by black skinned people from Africa whos culture was preserved when they migrated south into Ethiopia and Sudan and later south Sudan the group of people we understand as Arabs today didnt even exists at the time. And the fact that Africa is diverse has nothing to do with this.
I think its country of origin has the best claim.
i agree i just think its interesting considering the history of ancient Egypt. which is why i said IF such things went by culture and blood.
Time to expand the Empire again.
Edit: “it’s not an empire, it’s one big country!”
It’s not an empire if you call it a federation /s
“I have brought peace, freedom, justice and security to my new fediverse!”
Oh cool. Hotep? So, what percentage of Nubian blood must Mo Salah have before he is allowed to claim a connection to Ancient Egypt? Upper or Lower? Pseudohistory aside, one’s own cultural history is not subject to some racial blood purity tests. That’s some borderline Nazi shit. Anyway, fuck the Brits.
Just because Egypt is in Africa doesn’t automatically make Egyptians black. Look at a map. Northern Africa and Egypt were just as much part of southern Europe and the Middle East.
except that Egyptians were black some 4000 years ago, 2000 years for upper Egypt, it is quite literally named the “land of the blacks” after all that is what Egypt means, latter ancient civilizations in lower Egypt were not black and eventually upper Egypt too because of migration from Asia and Europe which in turn created migrations of the then Egyptians into at first upper Egypt and then Ethiopia and Sudan. Almost the entirety of what people think of when they think of “ancient Egypt” was made by black people not all but most.
Hell look at the written records of the pharaohs. Ramseses II (Ozymendias, of King of kings, look upon his works all ye mighty and despair fame) reasserted control of Canaan and Phoenicia, led military campaigns into Syria and the Levant, and also led expeditions into Nubia. That indicates a clearly more established connection to the Middle East than to elsewhere in Africa at the height of ancient Egypt (height of the new kingdom).
Is this an ancient Kush statue or am I missing something? I don’t believe upper ancient Egypt would be considered modern Sudan. Also DNA evidence from Egyptian mummies show little to no sub saharan DNA in them. How did you learn this information?
Probably read The Sirius Mystery and took it as fact
In fairness it likely wouldn’t be preserved otherwise. So you’re welcome.
It was doing fine where it was.
It was already thousands of years old. The British destroyed more artifacts than they “saved”.
Sure, I’m gonna steal your TV because I’ll take better care of it than you would.
You’re welcome
If by steal, you mean purchase from me for cheap because I don’t give a shit about it and don’t appreciate its value, only for my great grandson to show up years later and call you a thief, then sure!
Depends if you were watching the TV and taking care of or not.
E.g.
This is a conundrum I can’t wrap my head around. One (country, usually) can have something of cultural significance, and decide what to do with that. They can make it a museum, make it generally available, forbid access at all, and even destroy it completely (e.g. see Palmyra under ISIS).
If the object in question is not protected by UNESCO (and really, even if it is) no one has a say in that. The only remotely correct argument that can be made is that destroying historical artifacts makes it hard or impossible to study history, but one can argue that we don’t need to study history, it’s not like this is an imperative. Another argument may be that things do not belong to those who have it, but instead to their people as inheritors of people who lived long ago, but I don’t think that also helps.
And so, on one hand, I am for preserving artifacts and not destroying those, on the other hand, I don’t quite see what moral ground is there for it.
There is no moral grounds for stealing cultural artifacts. Even if it means the culture that rightfully possesses it wants to destroy it. That choice is entirely that cultures decision to make. Even if we disagree. It’s one thing to clutch your own pearls but so much worse to do that to someone else’s.
This is reasonable, but what if the culture that created the artifacts already went extinct like Maya? Besides, we’re not only talking about how it shouldn’t have been done in the past, but also about what to do today with that past.
It’s easy to say that everything bad of today is only because of wrongdoings of yesterday, but it is not useful and usually is only used as propaganda for something that has no justification except for the past being bad.
Edit: although, now that I think about it, coming from this viewpoint, that past is past and we should care about present, it’s clear that you’re right. If the culture bearer (or the inheritor, but this is grey zone for me) wants to destroy what is rightfully theirs, so be it. There is a bit of an issue with making those decisions by all eligible people, not a couple of extremists, though. Well, I think I found the contradiction that I had in me
While there can definitely be some legitimate discussion and ambiguity over which culture/country gets to inherit Mayan artifacts, for example, saying that the British, for example, should inherit it is a very weak argument. It’s not like the entirety of an extinct societies people just dropped dead. Some survived and after some time rebuilt new societies. Using Mayan artifacts as an example, Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras have a better claim to them then the British. It’s not propaganda or useless to say that items of cultural heritage should be returned.
So how about this what about-ism, if you live in the United States, the British took cultural artifacts from your lands too and aren’t giving them back right this moment. Where did you think all those native American artifacts in British museums came from? They didn’t make them and it’s not like North America was spared from British plundering. Might be nice to get that stuff back.
saying that the British should inherit it is a very weak argument
Yes, I am not making that argument, inheritors mush be at least somewhat related.
Although, in case you’re talking about, the indigenous people’s artifacts will likely end up in the country of their conquerors and oppressors, which is also a shame
Temporary custody for future generations seems like a good moral standpoint.
I can’t see the moral arguments for keeping the items.
Original items should be returned, but maybe exact copies should be made first (at the whose expense I don’t know).
As far, as I know, there are many cases of not returning on the ground of owners not having conditions to preserve.
But thanks for replying at least, I was hoping to see opposing opinions to try to understand what am I missing, not just ‘stealing bad’ downvotes
except that not actually an other hand sorta thing at all, almost exclusively it was colonizers and their wars that destroyed so many of the artifacts that werent stolen, if they weren’t delivery destroyed by colonizers to erase history and beyond even that the colonizers carelessness, greed, and racism which they brought to archeology led to much more than just artifacts being destroyed. There are so many historical sites whose histories we will never know at all because these clown excavated them to take “relics” and took little if any records where their precious artifacts were found and how, and that is if sites were not destroyed in their entirety out of sheer idiocy in the search of something else like how troy was. 18th, 19th, and even some 20th century so called archeology is a history of the destruction of history.
Holy run-on sentences. I agree with you, but it was done, it’s already in the museums. Signing petitions and raising awareness of agencies/museums that are trying to get the stuff back is probably a better way to funnel your frustrations.
White man’s burden
Exactly. Look at the state of it. We definitely should have taken that.
That’s an interesting point. While I agree it’s kinda shitty the UK nicked everyone’s cool stuff and shoved it in 1 building. I’m willing to bet if we hadn’t the number of pieces that would be lost to time would not be zero
This is just weird revisionist history. They moved in stole shit, colonized and murdered. The after the fact excuse of “we took it to preserve it” doesn’t play mostly because their colonizer bullshit is largely the reason areas they stole shit from are destabilized.
I’m not revising anything its a shitty thing to do and it should all be returned. It was just a thought with a beer given how volatile some of the areas where the stuff comes and yes I know most of them ended up volatile because of colonialism.
Yeah I’m totally sure the Brits didn’t break a single thing shipping artifacts to their big fancy museum. Let’s ignore all the mummies Europeans ground up into powder and ingested as “medicine”. Savagely eating dead humans with the same mouths that say brown people are too savage to take care of their own artifacts.
They also turned them into oil paint. Mummy/egyptian brown was a thing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mummy_brown
I dont know why people do shit like this. Find some rare, finite resource of information and do just about everything with them except study them respectfully. Eat them, grind them into paint, rich people having “unwrapping parties.”
Humans are so deeply disappointing.
To be fair, they probably weren’t able to take care of their own artifacts very well … after having been invaded by the British.
Damn, beat me to it. Colonialism is a hell of a drug.
Oddly enough they didn’t teach that part of history when I was at school. Got anything I could learn up on it
Also used to make Mummy Brown Paint (wikipedia link)
Fucking hell
Honestly the concept of property here is just silly. Who specifically do they belong to, why, what claim, and how could such a claim exist?
I just don’t agree with the concept, this individual doesn’t have any right to ownership regardless of whether his specific family owned it at some point prior, but most likely a direct relative doesn’t even own it, just someone with his self same ‘race’ ( which race doesn’t really exist either tbh, not genetically anyway, but exists as a social construct ).
I just despise this mentality. I don’t own anything collectively with anyone of my ‘race’, neither their achievements nor shames, and same for even direct relatives.
There is not enough generic diversity in humans to even prop up the idea of race beyond being a cultural construct, it’s time to stop seeing our fellow humans as something other.
what a bunch of nerds… this is mohamed salah, pro football player with liverpool fc and he is joking.
Property rights only exist when non-western countries want their stuff / land back. When the west stole them, then its finders keepers.
/s
they belong in Egypt not in en***nd
(Why are we bleeping England?)
cuz its a bad word.
The phrasing was weird, but this guy was born in Egypt and the statue was taken from Egypt. This isn’t a matter of private property, he’s commenting on how the UK exploited Egypt.
Sure, race and nationality are social constructs and genetics don’t support the divisions we make along phenotypic lines, however, you can’t just hope to solve racism and colonialism by saying they are gone and meaningless. If you say they no longer exist, that doesn’t erase the impacts racism and colonialism have had on a people.
In essence, it’s like punching someone repeatedly until they are bloody, stealing the money from their wallet to buy yourself a house, and then saying, “why can’t we forget our differences and just be friends?” Is everything alright? Is it ok that you now have a home and the other person is destitute because you stole their money? Does it make it any better if it was your parents or grandparents who did this and now you’ve inherited the house?
Just claiming it’s a social construct and wiping your hands of the issue does not fix the problem. And that metaphor I made does not even encompass the entire issue! Reality is more along the lines of: now that you own this house, you enforce policies that continually raise the price of housing and put a tax on people who don’t own a house. The exploitation many people have suffered at the hands of racism and colonialism never stopped, it just changed it’s form.
