Of all the things you could reasonably criticize the US over, wheelchair accessibility ain’t one of them. Especially compared to Europe.
I thought the idea was that Republicans are actively working on destroying what has been working fine and is benefitting lots of people, not just on preventing more progress.
Are you referring to something specific?
Abortion rights, voting rights, gay marriage, privacy, trans rights, immigration, housing, the economy, net neutrality, take your pick.
The topic at hand is wheelchair accessibility, though.
Nope. The topic at hand is free ice-ceam. A topic that you, as a rational adult, can understand that is 100% literal and not at hyperbolic example to make a point about general trends and not a single specific item.
A topic that you, as a rational adult, can understand
Massive assumption tbqh
Then somehow I’m in the wrong thread.
Yes the willfully oblivious thread is elsewhere
Not specifically. They just picked a random idea out of a hat. One that is currently working fine with no issue. To signify that is the type of stuff they go after.
Which takes us back to my first comment.
Are you suggesting that Finland is offering free ice cream?
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1C022I/
Tldr, they’re actually trying and have been trying, to pass bills to gut the ADA because disability access is anti American.
Also, the post is just making fun of the US consistently doing messed up stuff. When picking something for hyperbole, you usually pick something that’s extreme, not something that actually already happened.
it’s not quite as funny to say “the news is always like: former US president argues he should legally be able to do whatever he wants without consequences and courts might let him, meanwhile Finland has nearly eradicated homelessness.” You do get that the point was to be funny?That proposal died in Congress 7 years ago.
We Americans are not the monstrous caricatures you make us out to be. We’re not evil. We’re not wicked. And the US is not some dystopian nightmare. It’s actually a pretty good place to live.
The proposal shouldn’t have existed in the first place! There wouldn’t be a need to kill the proposal if our representation was composed of empathetic decent people, instead of ghouls bought out by the wealthy few.
It’s pretty monstrous to even consider proposing a removal of legislation that objectively helps a lot of Americans.
First, I live in the US, so not sure where you’re going with that.
Second, nice straw man. No one said Americans were evil, people said the news is often distressing and backwards.
Third, it doesn’t matter when it’s from when your argument was “America would never assail disability rights!”. An article about recent efforts by active politicians to rollback our biggest protections speaks to that. In any case, here’s a more recent article on the topic: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/midterm-elections-republicans-disabled-community_n_6375a759e4b0afce046aefefFour, you’re entirely lacking in nuance or a sense of humor, and seen incapable of distinguishing a joke from “all Americans are evil”, which is definitely a way to live, but not a very productive one if you ask me.
That’s an example used in the OP meme, but the context still suggest all those other things, too. That’s what the “news is always like” part is. You can replace wheel chair access with all sorts of things and the meme would still ring true.
The context of this thread is my criticism of that example.
Finland did not in fact make ice cream free, but you don’t challenge that. This is a meme, it could have said anything that sounds grotesquely arbitrary and callous, like banning left handed scissors, even if two-handed tools are probably more easily available in America than in many other parts of the world, perhaps even Finland.
Check the thread as a whole, my guy. Your critique of the example isn’t where people started disagreeing with you, but the secondary argument you made when someone said the meme itself isn’t just about wheel chair accessibility.
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It’s a fucking similie. Stop being so goddamned literal.
As if Democrats don’t do the exact same thing in lock step. Interesting where your focus lies however. It’s helpful though because it indicates your bias.
The ignorance you’re showing here is absolutely astounding. Banning things and removing certain people’s rights is a defining part of US republican politics. Every damn week, there’s a new thing they’ve decided is evil and needs to be banned. That’s very much not the case with US democrat politics. Sure, there are things they too want to ban or change, but it’s based on logic and not a constant stream of new things.
Yes, thankfully the Democrats aren’t the party of trying to ban stuff. Imagine if they were, and came out of nowhere to like ban gas stoves, gas cars, freedom of medical choices, and gender affirming surgery for kids. If any of that was true then I’d have a pretty good point, but thankfully it isn’t. Right?
It’s helpful though because it indicates your bias.
Lol.
It’s purposefully hyperbolic to illustrate a point. You think that Finland is seriously making all ice cream free?
I would not be the least bit surprised if all the Abbotts and Thomases and Trumps and Desantises (Desanti?) announced tomorrow that they would no longer be supporting the ADA’s immoral drain on
commercial profitsgovernmental budgets.And before someone points it out, gutting a system that he has personally benefited from to fuck over Texans is exactly the kind of thing Abbott would do.
They would never make the fish flavored ice cream free. The economy would collapse.
We don’t have fish flavored one, but we got ice cream that tastes like ammonium chloride
Wut.
It’s like eating a cat turd from a snow bank.
I’m gonna need an ingredients list…
And before someone points it out, gutting a system that he has personally benefited from to fuck over Texans is exactly the kind of thing Abbott would do.
Not would, he has. After the tree crippled him, he sued for his wealth. Then he outlawed the same type of payouts for the exact type of lawsuits he benefited from. Definition of pulling the ladder up behind you.
My point is that it’s not a good illustration.
Just read through some of the responses I’ve gotten. Some people think it’s a good illustration because it’s very plausible. Some because it’s not at all plausible.
I’m saying it’s not a good illustration because it’s not at all plausible.
Other than all the conservative efforts to destroy the ADA I guess.
I don’t think it makes much difference whether or not it is plausible. It’s just trying to communicate a message. I guess it has to be plausible enough that a reader can understand what it is even talking about; but not so plausible that the reader is led to believe this specific case is actually happening.
That’s just one more interpretation to add to the ones I mentioned.
Which is fundamentally my point. Had the OP used something that is actually happening then it would be harder to interpret the message in unintended ways. And it would be much more readily accepted by Americans like myself who do not see themselves as evil, stupid, malicious, or any of the other insults that necessarily follow from any interpretation the OP.
On the other hand, disallowin wheelchair ramps because there are not mentioned in the Bible would be a very American move.
Equal access to every building? Sounds like a commie plot.
A very southern American move
obligatory mention that it’s not “The South,” but ~30 minutes outside of any metro area in the US.
Evangelical Christian assholes are not uniquely southern, have you been anywhere outside of a city in any state?
They are much more powerful and prevalent down here, however. The bible belt is absolutely a real thing.
20 years ago yeah. Now it’s everywhere.
Aka backwards fucking stupid American.
Americans are not the caricatures of evil and malice you seem to think we are.
You are currently debating whether hospitals can let women die instead of performing abortions
It’s painful to admit, but American politicians do not actually represent Americans. Over 80% of us believe abortion should be legal under some if not all circumstances. We are being held hostage by an ignorant minority.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx
If your politicians don’t represent the people, what the heck are they doing?
Or, why do your people still vote for them?
Because the party that most people don’t vote for have become exceedingly adept at gaming the system.
Then do something about it.
But your other party won’t change it either, because they use the same loopholes.
Our democratic process is heavily flawed. The electoral college distorts the relative power votes so that less populated states have more power.
Also, less than half of eligible adults vote, and those that do are disproportionately conservative boomers.
Only about 20% of the population voted for trump. Everyone else either didn’t care, didn’t think he could win, or didn’t want him to win.
The problem is that the non-Trumpers care to little to go to the voting booths.
You can become president of the United States with only 22% of the votes. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7wC42HgLA4k&pp=ygUaY2dwIGdyZXkgZWxlY3RvcmFsIGNvbGxlZ2U%3D
You’re hastily summarizing some stupid political hit piece as the totality of what everyone in the country thinks. That’s incredibly lazy thinking. What country are you from where everyone thinks the same exact way and the news accurately reports it?
Evil and malicious? Of course not. Mislead by a tailor-made Christian cult that always supports whatever the cult leader thinks is important? Literally nothing more American than that. We have a state that was founded for that propose. The largest, consistent voting block in America is fueled by exactly this.
Of course we’re not but “the supreme court bans something good because it’s not explicitly allowed in a 200 year old document” is a goddamn accurate statement lol
Have you told your leaders that?
That really hurts.
Especially compared to Europe?
What? Europe very sound protection for the disabled. Putside of historical buildings built before disability care you won’t find better access anywhere.
I get America is pretty good too, but your comment makes it sound like Europe is a nightmare for the disabled.
Not sure about how good or bad it is in the US, but in the Netherlands (a place that is known for good infrastructure) it’s definitely not perfect.
I never realised until we got a baby and I started walking with a stroler. Way too often the sidewalk is inaccessible because of cars or bicycles. Also lots of places without ramps or elevators.
You have a sidewalk, that is obstructed sometimes. Having a sidewalk puts in like the top 10% of countries instantly lol
Wait next thing you tell me is that I can’t complain about having too many people on bicycles on the bicycle roads?
You guys actually have bicycle roads…
America has way more wheelchair ramps due to the critically obese population, so the statement is still mostly true.
Europe very sound protection for the disabled. Putside of historical buildings built before disability care you won’t find better access anywhere.
But that’s the point: Most buildings were built before disability care, and haven’t been upgraded.* Think about your favorite restaurant, bar, kebab place, corner shop etc. – I don’t think any of mine are wheelchair accessible. Also good luck taking a train in Germany, where many platforms aren’t wheelchair accessible and they might or might not have a lift to get you into the train.
The Americans with Disabilites Act (ADA) is miles ahead of any legal framework that I’m aware of in Europe. The US is a broken country in many ways, but that doesn’t mean that literally anything and everything has to be worse than in glorious Europe.
*The former is true for the US too, but the ADA still required many of them to make reasonable accomodations.
Think about your favorite restaurant, bar, kebab place, corner shop etc.
All have wheelchair ramps. Even the townhall that was built in the 1700s has a wheelchair ramp, as does the church built in the 1400s.
I only know a handful of places that are in the centre of dense cities that don’t have them.
Then if I wanted to make comparisons to the US, yes lots of buildings are wheelchair acceptable, but they still expect you to drive between those buildings, even if you’re disabled, so sidewalks and crossing points are abysmal.
I get that Europe is pretty good too, but the OP makes it sound like America is a nightmare for the disabled.
You do see my point, you just don’t like it.
If you wouldn’t have put the last sentence into your first comment, your point would be fine. Same with your second comment
My comment is mild compared to the OP.
OP was hyperbolic and even tho, tu quoque arguments aren’t very strong
It never even occurred to you that perhaps I wasn’t being deadly serious and absolutely literal either?
No.
You think this tweet is bout wheelchair accesibility??
I get what the tweet is trying to say. What I’m saying is that wheelchair accessibility is a particularly bad example for that point.
It’s an excellent example. Politicians take something the US does great, and fuck it up because of their religious zealousy.
That’s ridiculous.
Of course it’s ridiculous. That doesn’t stop it from being true.
It is indeed ridiculous that your politicians actively take away abortion right because of Christian zealots.
Tja
Lmao yes, we are one of the best in that regard.
Thank you American Disability Act!!
huh? america is absolute garbage for wheelchair access, the ADA is absolutely not sufficient
fuckin have fun navigating the average suburb with a wheelchair, you can’t even walk to the store in most places
you can’t even walk to the store in most places
Or roll into the store.
Google tells me that the US is ranked #5 in the world behind Japan, Canada, Germany, and the Netherlands.
you can’t even walk to the store in most places
I’d imagine walking to the store in a wheelchair to be incredibly difficult.
Technically in common disability parlance the motion of movement in a wheel chair is still considered “walking” just like listening to an audiobook is considered “reading” for visually impaired people.
Basically it accepts the whatever means you get to the end product as being a synonyms with the verbs those used by abled people.
Learned this from my librarian buddies.
i may in fact have meant actual walking on two legs, hence why i used the word “walk”
In most of America you can’t walk to the store even if you don’t use a wheelchair. At my old place I could see a grocery store from my house, but it was on the other side of a limited access road, I had to go 1.5miles to a pedestrian overpass to be able to get to it making it a 6 mile walk to get 100 yards.
that was my point, yes
To be fair a good chunk of the buildings in Europe are older than america.
New builds tend to take differently able people in mind these days
Europe didn’t have a law about it until 2016.
Europe doesn’t set all the rules at the EU level, this type of thing was probably law in many EU countries before it was law at the EU level.
Mellvar is completely wrong, the law was drafted in 2000, and became compulsory in 2009 because there were a couple of countries that hadn’t complied
Not sure what agenda they’re pushing, or if they’re confused with the new law that says that all web based sites now have to be inclusive
Cool. Not sure how that counters anything I said though
It supports my point.
How so if anything it counters it. Europe had made changes to the law to ensure help.
While not being g in America there’s a huge selection bias from the media no doubt tha sure as shit ain’t happening
Because the US law was passed in 1990.
That’s fair but it’s also not the point of the post which is the us rolling back the laws that help people. Your just keeping an ultra narrow focus because you think it’s helping hide that fact
Hey now, the ADA is one of the few things we’ve got going for us
And all it took was paraplegics crawling up the steps of the capitol in protest.
Is… is that actually what happened? My younger self might have assumed you were exaggerating, but my current self has seen too much to assume anything.
Yep, it happened. Scroll up a bit and you’ll see evangelicals opposed the ADA because it included protections for people with HIV.
Truly no hate like Christian love
…for now.
For now
It always pisses my wife off when I park in a “handicapped” spot that is really just an old spot with badly faded paint.
For a handicapped parking spot to actually be a handicapped parking spot, you need both the pavement painting and the sign.
I would like to note that the spots I’m talking about aren’t even the ones close to the building (which is probably why they took down the sign), and there are actual spots closer to the door.
Hey there, sometimes-wheelchair-user here. Afaik the law is also the same where I live, the spot has to have a sign. Here, when there’s a spot with just faded paint, it usually just means that the handicap spot got moved somewhere else. The only thing I’d suggest is if you don’t already, just check and make sure that there is a spot somewhere else that does have a sign. If there isn’t, it’s probably because the owner just didn’t mark the spot properly. In that case, it’s best to leave it open for those who need it, even though it wouldn’t technically be against the law to park there.
I’m not accusing you of anything, just putting this out there in case the situation comes up. Cheers!
Idk, man. Finland has been posting some Ls recently. The Orpo Cabinet is all about those tax cuts, business-friendly deregulations, big new military spending budgets, and tighter restrictions on immigration.
Basically doing Reaganism, Finnish style.
I wonder why they feel like they need to spend money on their military
I think they’re planning a big LAN Party. COD and Rainbow 6, and CS2, of course.
Yes I wonder why
Probably prepping for WW3
At least that’s what it would be now if Russia attacked.
big new military spending budgets
Considering what is going on, that’s an L?
tighter restrictions on immigration.
Ditto
Ditto
Sort of the joke in all this. Drop a few bombs. Create a bunch of new refugees. Then close your borders.
Maybe I misunderstood you but I’m talking about Finland. We didn’t drop any bombs. We’re just reacting to Russian attack on Ukraine and them using refugees as tools.
Dumbass American me periodically thought “the Orpo” cabinet was from Ikea or something. (Yes I know thats Sweden but again I’m a dumbass American) 🙃
Per the bible, we aren’t really even allowed to be human beings and are all born wretches full of original sin. If that’s true than I’d rather have the free ice cream and body tattoos and promiscuity while I’m going to hell.
Bible tl;dr: Jesus died so you DONT have original sin anymore.
Was that before or after Goku defeated Buu with the Genkidama?
Before, Goku died to Radditz to forgive our sins again because we just can’t stop sinning.
- And then Goku stood with his 5 companions and they all went super Saiyan. 2. They channeled the energy from their pure hearts (even Vegeta, though everyone did doubt his heart was pure, they let it slide because they really wanted to see the coming fight and Brolly would have been just as questionable) and at first nothing happened and the god of destruction Beerus was about to destroy the world. 3. But then a new kind of energy filled Goku and powered him up even more than SSJ3, though it did not make his hair even bigger and brow even more like that of a pre-human hominid. 4. Instead, it turned his hair red and his ki godly and pleased even Beerus, who once destroyed an entire planet because they burned one side of his toast too much. 5. And then Goku the god looked at Beerus and said, “Let there be fight.” 6. And then they fought and it was good.
Tell that to the mfers who keep baptizing people smh
That sounds like Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912 talk to me.
Well there never really was a “Jesus” who saved us from original sin, and the bible is simply a work of misogynistic and bigoted fiction. I don’t need “saving,” I’m not a ‘wretch,’ I was never “blind but now I see.” WRONG. WRONG ON ALL COUNTS!!! I am a human being of great value and worth by virtue of my existence, and I don’t require or want dependency on some fictional idiotic being for my salvation or sense of worth.
A bit dramatic for this conversation… but given the circumstances with some religious people I absolutely get where you’re coming from. We do not need to be given the right to exist by others - we create our value.
We do not need to be told morality - we create morality (for we do not need to be told “do not be cruel or you will burn in hell,” as we understand that cruelty is for the weak who wish to be powerful, and not needed by the truly powerful.)
We do not need a god to align our will to - we can direct our collective wills by our own strength. We are worthy or unworthy of love by our own means - we do not need “forgiveness” from anyone but ourselves.
Maybe so but I’m nothing if not overly dramatic most of the time. The reason I go all hystrionic and raving about it is, because sometimes I feel like the only way people hear you or even pay attention is if you go ballistic and overstate things.
We do create our own morality, and as we learned in philosophy classes, morality is an individual (not social) construct.
I totally agree with your conclusion that we do not need a “god” to align our will to, as humans we’ve accomplished unbelievable miraculous things on our own. Some may say that’s because of divine design, but I say it’s because we’re just that intelligent. Not so intelligent as a god, maybe - but we should trust in ourselves and absolutely be good to ourselves (forgive ourselves as you say).
are you ok?
OH yeah. I’m doing great, sometimes I get a little carried away with my statements - but I really am doing great. And I feel I owe that to my own hard work and resilience and not being dependent on a fictional diety (but that’s my way of seeing it).
I sometimes forget that there are people out there that take any of this seriously. I was just explaining a plot point so your reply seemed very out of left field with a chainsaw bear.
Yeah it was a little heavy handed, I admit. I live in Utah where religion is most people’s way of life, and believe me, they’re dead serious about it to the point that it’s almost frightening.
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Makes sense. I hope he’ll take some old kleenex and a piece of lint-covered candy for payment.
Actually, America is one of the most disabled-friendly country in the world when it comes to access struggles like wheelchair ramps and elevators
Joke’s on you, they’re just spreading some flavour on all of the snow and it’s all salty licorice.
Don’t eat the yellow one though
🎶Watch out where the huskies go 🎶
Check out his (and Andy and Matt’s) podcast “probably science” it’s a wonderful way to get all the poop, flatulence, and penis science your brain could ask for. They occasionally have on great guests, and (almost) always have interesting people doing the show with them.
Also he is great on Twitter, but usually deletes his posts after they get over x amount of views/shares, because he isn’t into going viral.
Also, please bring back Jesse vs cancer, it’s been over a year guy.
https://pca.st/podcast/d043e380-30c3-012f-feca-525400c11844
I’ve not watched the show yet, but here’s the link I just dug up for myself, for anyone’s convenience
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Image Transcription: Social Media
Jesse Case, @jessecase
The news is always like:
“America has banned wheelchair ramps because they weren’t in the Bible. Finland has made ice cream free.”
Me bout to move to Finland.
Don’t. They have two weird languages
Communist yeti-Mongols.
At least we aren’t executing depressed people like Canada is doing
You just make guns easily accessible and then blame the suicides on godlessness.
There is much to say about reporting biases, but in this case you’re touching one of the most humane services only the most progressive countries have touched on. The ability to pass away in a respectful way on your own terms. No one is being forced or pressured, that’s a blatant lie many media channels are responsible for.
You don’t choose to be born, if you feel your life is unbearable/complete you should be able to step out of it without having to be kept alive by pills and/or treatments while slowly deteriorating mentally/physically. And don’t get me started on the uncertain outcome and dramatic outcome of suicide, which is usually an insane ‘counter-argument’ that gets proposed as available option.
Sadly many countries have not yet reached that level of sympathy, mainly because of religious intervention. Which is exactly the point of this post.
Country says it is legal to drink water.
“Country is executing people by drowning!”
I’m assuming even the people who agree with you hate the way you’re approaching this. I hope you’re just a troll, because the alternative is that you’re an idiot.
At least?
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Look up medically assisted in dieing or MAID
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Yeah Finland always had it easy, nothing bad ever happened there for generations!
That’s because even the snow speaks Finnish.
Hyvaa paivaa
You forgot your ääkköset.
Anteeksi :(
Yeah, like a fucking bloody civil war with these people in same wavelength.
This but a little bit unironically. They and their Scandinavian neighbors went unaligned during the Cold War and reaped an enormous peace dividend.
Now that the country is getting sucked into the Ukraine-Russia mess, they’re pivoting towards domestic spending cuts and tighter immigration rules and a big new military budget.
went unaligned during the Cold War
Finland didn’t have many options in the matter, you know
Strange that, when a country invaded another country, invades that same country again a handful of years later, and then that same invading country threatens to invade your country if you try to join a certain group of people, that you might go ahead and try to prevent that country from invading you.
Very strange.
you try to join a certain group of people, that you might go ahead and try to prevent that country from invading you
Wouldn’t be the first time Finland teamed up with a bunch of fascists.
NATO is fascists?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Heusinger
Operations Chief within the general staff of the High Command of the German Army in the Wehrmacht from 1938 to 1944.
Chairman of NATO Command from 1961 to 1964
And it only gets worse from there.
Operative word: IS
That’s 60+ years ago, dammit
This is a profoundly racist sentiment. There is nothing special about Nordics. They’re just people from a place. There’s nothing about being born somewhere that makes you vibe with people from that place and agree on everything. Ask the Baltics or the Middle East.
It’s the American right wing way of convincing the population that 1: you’ll never have peace with a mixed population and 2: we can never have the nice things other countries have because we’re a mixed population.
They get to keep the status quo of “everything gets worse so businesses owners make more” and they get to use the racist dog whistles to keep those racist asshats on their side by “proving” race mixing makes things worse…
It works because people don’t really think about what’s being said. :(
America also has a lot people who have lived here for generations too, at least long enough generationally to not particularly matter much any more. That’s not something particularly unique to Finland.
America just more uniquely treats some people much worse than others. For example parts of my family came to the US as immigrants around the turn of the 1900s and it took a while for italians (who at the time were the “dirty brown people bringing drugs and crime to our streets”) to gain “white people” status around the 1970s. I have friends who’s families have family trees much longer rooted in America, but have historically been treated a lot worse than I or my parents ever have even into the present day.
America also has a lot people who have lived here for generations too, at least long enough generationally to not particularly matter much any more. That’s not something particularly unique to Finland.
I don’t wanna weigh in on either side of this issue overall, but… Yes, America is unique in its historical “melting pot” of cultures, or at least is very different from Finland in this respect.
If we really wanted to explore the concept further there’s also been a not insignificant about of cultural exchange that happened between the Scandinavian area and numerous regions outside their immediate area, as vikings traveled around, they encounter the early British, Normans and Franks, the had encounters with the late Christian and early Muslim world surrounding the Hagia Sophia, as evidenced by the viking graffiti carved I to stonework in there. They’ve had Christian missionaries proselytize their lands and convert them to Christianity away from the Norse traditions and dramatically retold those traditions from a christocentric framing.
Finland isn’t some culturally untouched place, left to their own devices for centuries. They both invaded others and were invaded, they engaged in trade and cultural exchange, they influenced other cultures and other cultures influenced them.
Informative ty
Glad to bring another perspective to the situation. I’m tired of the “Nordic countries are a culturally cohesive population” argument while ignoring the centuries cultural exchange and interaction with the world beyond their borders. it’s lazy right wing “rationalization” about how social safety nets and better public policy that helps people can’t work in the US because of “cultural disunity”
Careful, you might attract racist dogs with that whistling
Yeah, same wavelength, right, there was bloody civil war in Finland just bit over 100 years ago. Whites (the right) and reds (the left), with 10 000 executions on losing side.
what about Estonia
