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This is one of the first claims I remember reading about Star Trek on BBSs linked by FidoNet. It’s funny how it hasn’t changed.
Is there a single episode without politics?
Star Trek is and always has been deeply and inherently political
People whined about black hobbits and elves.
What?! Fashion-Lizard and his Sidekick Dr.Twink are Woke?! I can’t believe it!
Well, it did take a while for Fashion-Lizard to stop being Fascism-Lizard.
Don’t forget that the whole Federation is a post captialist utopia which is a political statement in itself.
Don’t forget that the whole Federation is a post captialist utopia which is a political statement in itself.
Great point!
Wait until people finally get the epiphany that Star Trek is advocating for a world government. And how many here, including outside the Internet, would actually like that?
Precisely.
I don’t know. I might like that? It depends a lot on how it is implemented and who is in charge. 😅
And how much power the global government has compared to individual regions.
World government advocates would want a democray with a strong constitution that ensures checks and balance, and a federal system.
- Constitution 🇺🇲
- “Checks and balances” 🇺🇲
- Federal system 🇺🇲
Sounds like you just wanna expand the United States to incorporate the whole world there, good buddy 🙃
Huh? That’s not exclusively American. Democratic countries have them.
IIRC, a world government is a prerequisite for joining the Federation isn’t it?
I like scifi. I like to explore the strange and push past the walls of reality. I like dangerous visions. Big ideas.
But interpersonal drama, identity-stroking and, yes, politics. It’s just weak and boring. It’s small. Damn small.
Do you see the difference?
Sometimes startrek goes big. Sometimes it doesn’t.
You need good characters to make a good show regardless of the setting, and also to help the viewers relate to the “big” stuff going on around them.
Don’t get me wrong, I think I like the stuff you like. I’d happily watch a documentary about all the made up technology and new science & life they discover, with zero need for conflict or personal growth or “feelings” or whatever. But that wouldn’t be the TV show, which is experienced largely through the eyes of the crew.
Sci-fi is at its best when it recontextualizes an idea in a way that makes us consider it from a different perspective.
Battlestar Galactica did an awesome job of turning the issues around entirely. Famously, it essentially turned the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan on their heads in Season 3, and you had the good guys building IEDs and employing suicide bombers to kill collaborators.
But my favorite one was when they came up with a situation in which outlawing abortion was necessary, and the political opposition used it as an opportunity to manufacture outrage and steal an election even though they didn’t actually care about the issue at all.
But you don’t need spaceships and aliens to do that. It’s just fetishwear at that point.
In real scifi it isn’t fetishwear. It actually serves a purpose.
The spaceships and aliens are how you get people to look at it from a new perspective.
The early seasons of DS9 were about the aftermath of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan and the fall of the Soviet Union. 1990s Americans couldn’t have cared less about the dangers of far-right religious indoctrination of schoolchildren, the re-intrigation of traumatized resistance fighters into peacful society, the cautious restoration of political and economic ties with former occupiers, and the danger of the discovery of a new resource in the territory of a politically and militarily fragile nation full of extremists.
But throw in phasers and a warp drive and people will watch. Suddenly you’ve tricked people into recognizing that people with different backgrounds and religions can embrace their differences to make the world a better place, or reject that unity and create suffering. You have capitalists and socialists sharing space in peace. There’s an invented taboo against rekindling an old relationship that’s actually about gay rights.
All these amazing topics are brought to an audience that just wanted laser fights.
Any genre show can do it. My parents were as red-blooded Republican as anyone, but the third episode of The Last of Us had them crying tears of joy and pain over the love story between 2 men. It tricked them into becoming open-minded by promising zombies.
That’s fiction at its finest.
Yes, like I said, fetishwear. Nonfunctional costumery
Their function is using them to introduce concepts to an audience that may not otherwise be interested or receptive.
politics is all-encompassing, it can be as big or as small as anything else
Well I suppose it’s a matter of perspective.
I liked Trek before Alex Kurzman stuck his filthy fingers in it and made entire franchise a steaming pile of dog shit.
Haha, true that.
But he tried.
And failed.
If first interracial kiss on TV is Woke then I don’t wanna be anything but.
It reminds me of those people that claim The X-Men have gotten “woke” even though that’s been the whole point of the comic since the 60’s or worse yet those poor souls out there who thought Rage Against the Machine was getting too political lol
Reminds me of a YouTube comment under the video where they got cut of during a bbc live take for singing “fuck” after the production team brieft them to not sing fuck: “What machine they thought they rage against? The printer?”
“Please, if you find one of our songs that isn’t political, please show it to me so I can verify and have it removed.” - Tom Morello
There’s a lot in renegades
I wonder what these people think “the machine” means 😭
the printer obvs
Fuck you, I won’t print what you tell me
Low on cyan
printing in black and white
I never understood that complaint about Star Trek. The series has ALWAYS been woke since the beginning.
Kinda like people complaining Rage Against the Machine becoming political.
Always has been.True in a way, but it was more philosophical and not “in your face”. It made you think about it, and the story was way waay better and deeper than today’s pew-pew starwars approach to star trek. Every episode had a meaning and a lession.
Yeah the problem isn’t the ideals being in there but how bad the story is makes the ideals seem like a cheap crutch.
Compare Brokeback Mountain to Ben and Arthur. Both movies about the relationship between gay men and society. Both say gay people should be treated fairly by socity but aren’t. The first does it in interesting way with great storytelling and ideas. The later is a hamfisted mess.
I’m not going to say modern Trek is Ben and Arthur bad but it is much closer to Ben and Arthur writing then it is to Brokeback Mountain.
True in a way, but it was more philosophical and not “in your face”.
they did the first US interracial kiss during a time that would be controversial.
it was “in your face”
Yeah but that was something that happened and it wasnt a big deal, that’s the whole point. It wasnt the centerpoint of the whole episode, it wasnt the main act and talked about throughout the episode non stop. It’s just something that was normal and happened in normal day to day life. In future these things are considered normal and not worth talking about, because racism is something that did not exist in like 300 years.
It was much better integrated into the story. The problem isn’t the message, it’s the writing.
Don’t forget The Measure of a Man. We literally watched that in 9th grade American History, as a commentary about slavery.
I don’t know about woke but I liked Trek before it got boring and poorly written -_-
Yep, and they suck at analogies too. The old format usually had fairly enlightened people encounter an injustice, usually making it right in some way. It’s morality theater. Discovery made the Federation itself dark and edgy and the people on board a complete mess, not a world I’d like to live in. Maybe that’s what some people perceive when they complain about “politics”.
That’s fair, the cartoon is apparently not bad, just not my cup of tea.
Lower Decks is my favorite Star Trek since DS9. When it came out though, I was super against it. Didn’t think Paramount had any right to be making fun of Star Trek after Discovery season 1. You can tell Lower Decks is made by people that love Star Trek though.
This last season, they did a classic Audience-with-the-Klingon-High-Council episode, and when I saw it, I exclaimed to my fiance, “Yes! I love Klingon bureaucracy episodes!” and then later in the episode, there was almost that exact same line
Strange New Worlds has been finding their feet too. We got a courtroom episode on Augment rights, that really felt Star Trek, and they’ve had some original stories as well that I’ve really loved, like Among the Lotus Eaters. There have been a couple episodes I haven’t been a fan of, but what Star Trek hasn’t had those?
If you’re open to it, I recommend giving both shows another chance!
We have The Orville today for good Trek
Can’t stomach McFarlane unfortunately. I’m told it gets better later on but his sense of humor is just like nails on a chalkboard to me. Couldn’t get myself to finish the first season.
Oh, OG Trek was woke AF, but it wasn’t done as ham-handed and hackey as what is happening now. It used to feed open-mindedness into everyone’s living room and was generally welcome to do so. What we have now is just slapping you in the face with its floppy cock of wokeness every chance it gets. There is now almost no actual plot other than that. Doctor Who is doing the exact same thing. Can nothing of my childhood just be left the fuck alone? I mean, yeah, represent the marginalized. Make female heroes, or transgender, or whatever and whoever you feel needs to be represented or empowered. Do all of that, but do you have to rewrite absolutely everything ever written to do it? Have an original thought. Honestly, at this point, it is just lazy writing masquerading as woke.
Thank you, exactly that.
but it wasn’t done as ham-handed and hackey as what is happening now.
I’d also drag out Angel One from TNG. It’s the laziest way to write a matriarchy: everything is the same, except women are in charge instead of men.
I’m sure if we tried hard enough, we could find hackneyed, ham-handed episodes across all Star Trek shows.
For example, this attempt at discussing gender norms:
I think this comment really nails what’s irking me amount newer Trek. It used to be a show that was written in a way that regardless of your politics, anyone could watch, and it would make you think. It was a show that would sneakily slip in progressive ideas that could make you second guess your perspectives on the world.
Now there is no depth to it, it just slaps you in the face with politics.
This is probably gonna be a hot take, but I think Star Trek should be written in a way that is appealing for conservatives to watch, but regularly slips in metaphors which challenges their world view. Trek was at it’s best when on it’s surface it was a fun adventure show, and the politics was on a deeper level.
Explain more about how your childhood is ruined by political messaging in checks notes
Modern Doctor Who and Star Trek. The best written and acted shows of all time, obviously.
