Kennedy’s hearing signifies how close a man with medically racist beliefs is to becoming the US’s leading health official
“Samudzi is concerned that a Kennedy appointment could result in policies that halt research and dismantle demonstrably proven health interventions.”
I assumed it is already well-known that this is exactly the goal of his nomination.
What I really think America needs is an unqualified heroin addict that is a self proclaimed arm chair scientist.
You want the bush model or the Kennedy model? Sorry, were all out of the bidens, the just fly off the shelf.
Someone just say the racist old man is a racist old man with racist views. But then they would be the target of attacks for “not being civil” to the racist. This country sucks.
Everyone needs to remember the Paradox of tolerance. Allowing intolerance will only breed more intolerance. Everyone should speak out and shine a light on it when they can.
It’s just super old school racism is what it is. I’m talking like 17th century racism.
Creating Caucasians/Aryans remains the stupidest science. Bunch of hateful twits obsessed with bullshit like where Noah’s Arc was and measuring their own heads. Filthy rotten fuckers, every one of them. Paved the way for shit like
A 2016 survey revealed that of 222 white American medical students and residents, nearly 60% thought Black people’s skin is thicker than white peoples, and 12% thought Black people’s nerve endings were less sensitive than those of white people.
jfc…
Some of the dumbest people I’ve ever met have been doctors and nurses, the more the specialize the worse shit to, they are so hyper focused on their jobs they just fall into the stupidest shit.
As the old joke goes: what do you call the person who finishes last in their class at medical school? Doctor.
This is a huge problem, the stats are way worse for nurses as I recall. Even some textbooks still claim that black people have higher pain tolerance and need less medication. Black people are denied opioids and treated as “drug seeking” far more than white patients. They can have problems accessing treatment for opioid use disorders too.
In 2021, maternal mortality rates for black women were about 2.6 that of non Hispanic white women. Its not hard to see why.
RFK Jr is the embodiment of unscience. If there was ever a god of unscience RFK Jr would be its avatar.
the insistence on there being differences between the racists is central to Fascism.
they NEED it to be true to bolster their ideas and goals.
I think you made a typo, and meant to say “races”.
They need the racists to be different too.
When they wipe out whoever the majority hates, diversity in racism means there will be new groups hated by the majority that can be wiped out. And then another group the majority hates.
Turn everyone against everyone else, and everyone becomes disposable.
deleted by creator
I get it. But it doesn’t mean they didn’t accidentally land on a true statement.
You’re right. I’d already deleted my older comment. I think I read your initial one in the wrong tone, was all. All good.
how it started with the jews back in the day.
Actually how it start with black people. Classical race science was invented to prove how black people had thicker skulls and felt less pain in order to excuse slavery.
Fun fact “The origin of species” is only half of the name of Darwins book. Don’t ask about the other half.
Don’t forget the “science” of things like drapetomania.
Yes, certain people who were actual medical professionals in their day argued that not wanting to be enslaved was a mental illness if you were black.
Yea, along the old meme of Black people being fast runners by default.
On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life
Do you think Darwin meant this in an aspirational or observational way?
Don’t pretend Darwin and Galton were the same person just because they were related.
“Favored Races” does not mean “white people.” “Favored races” = “selected species.”
This reminds me of weird creationist canards. Darwin is not responsible for social Darwinism, and distanced himself from it. He was talking about finches and tortoises.
Darwins was pretty bullish on white surpremacy and sexism.
https://wng.org/roundups/darwins-racism-1617223432
After religion took a nosedive it was very convenient that slaves and colonies suddenly turned out to be “biologically inferior” humans.
That’s not talking about Darwin’s views though, that’s talking about how scientific racism adapted and distorted Darwinism.
Darwin was against slavery and connected to several abolitionists. Darwin never really promoted social Darwinism, and his writings point out how human society does take care of its weak/those who would not otherwise survive.
Slavery, although in some ways beneficial during ancient times, is a great crime; yet it was not so regarded until quite recently, even by the most civilized nations. And this was especially the case, because the slaves belonged in general to a race different from that of their masters. As barbarians do not regard the opinion of their women, wives are commonly treated like slaves.
Like these are not the words of an evil sexist pro slavery eugenicist. I would not argue that Darwin wasn’t sexist or racist at all - it’s the 1800s, they all are - but Darwin is not responsible for eugenics/social Darwinism.
The article I linked previously was the top result this one might be slightly better it contains some quotes
Indeed, he articulated this same principle in his scientific study of human evolution, The Descent of Man (1871), where he claimed, “At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace throughout the world the savage races.”
Not only racism, but racial extermination was an integral feature of Darwin’s theory from the start.
There is more this is only a small part. Darwin also had passion for misoginy
I’m genuinely surprised to see creationist apologia on Lemmy. Here’s another article from the same website:
“When Christians Embrace Scientific Materialism”
West explains that “Stockholm syndrome” refers to the tendency of a victim to bond with or sympathize with his or her captor. West uses this phenomenon to describe the damage some influential Christians do when they decide to reject historical biblical teaching in favor of scientific materialism. One symptom of Stockholm Syndrome Christianity in science is a diminished role for God in Creation. As Exhibit A for this symptom, West chooses Francis Collins, arguably the most celebrated evangelical Christian scientist in America. Collins, who rose to fame through his work on the Human Genome Project and his bestselling book The Language of God, is admired by Christian leaders and laypeople alike as an exemplary model of a faithful Christian in science. But West contends that Collins’s model for integrating faith and science is deeply flawed. From failing to challenge the secular establishment in the areas of abortion and sexuality as head of the National Institutes of Health to a years-long quest to marginalize and attack Christian scientists and scholars skeptical of Darwinian evolution, West explains how Collins has fallen prey to Stockholm Syndrome Christianity. West also describes modern theistic evolution, the flawed theological perspective that has inspired many of Collins’s scientific positions.
It might not surprise you then that that Darwin quote is taken dishonestly out of context:
But these breaks depend merely on the number of related forms which have become extinct. At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilised races of man will almost certainly exterminate, and replace, the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes, as Professor Schaaffhausen has remarked (18. ‘Anthropological Review,’ April 1867, p. 236.), will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilised state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.
With respect to the absence of fossil remains, serving to connect man with his ape-like progenitors, no one will lay much stress on this fact who reads Sir C. Lyell’s discussion (19. ‘Elements of Geology,’ 1865, pp. 583- 585. ‘Antiquity of Man,’ 1863, p. 145.), where he shews that in all the vertebrate classes the discovery of fossil remains has been a very slow and fortuitous process. Nor should it be forgotten that those regions which are the most likely to afford remains connecting man with some extinct ape- like creature, have not as yet been searched by geologists.
Eg, he’s talking about the elimination of a taxonomic distinction not violence or subjugation.
At this point, I’m not sure if you are being intellectually honest or if this is a weird crypto creationist propaganda thing.
Both of these people are acting like Darwin and Galton were the same person and I think it’s intentional dishonesty.
During Robert F Kennedy Jr’s Senate confirmation hearing on 30 January, Angela Alsobrooks, a Democratic senator from Maryland, pressed the nominee on his past claims that Black people have a stronger immune system than white people and thereby, should receive vaccines on a different schedule than them. “What different vaccine schedule would you say I should have received?” Alsobrooks, who is Black, asked the health secretary nominee. Kennedy then referenced a “series of studies” showing that “to particular antigens, Blacks have a much stronger reaction”.
I randomly rewatched The Help and one of the racist white ladies was talking about how black people have different germs. “How ridiculous,” I thought. And yet here we are.
Again.
They were still telling students in med school as recent as the past 4 years that black ppl need less painkillers because we, “Tolerate pain better than other races.”
Ppl surprised by this rhetoric haven’t been paying attention
Despite there being other studies showing that it’s factually untrue, and this perception comes down to different levels of empathy. (I know, what a surprise)
Pretty fucked up if they were teaching that despite a lack of evidence.
That said, the concept itself isn’t completely far fetched… Red heads need more anesthesia than everyone else for some genetic reason. Another group needing less for genetic reasons seems plausible.
Redheads are probably less genetically diverse than the rest of the population, iirc it’s mostly caused by a recessive gene. So if someone is a redhead, then the chances are high that they share other special genes with other redheads.
Africans on the other hand are more genetically diverse than people from other continents. It’s possible that some African population groups require different levels of medications, but you won’t be able to tell those population groups apart by the color of their skin.
As a redhead, I would like to say that I feel like the human equivalent of one of those dogs bred for looks who has problems. Because man, do I seem to have problems.
Which isn’t to say that’s true for all redheads, but it is for me.
Redheads need a lower opioid dose than the general population to achieve the same effect. At least those who are redheads because of a mutation in their MCR1 gene, which is about 75%, IIRC. Interestingly, the same mutation group also have worse tolerance of cold, which seems odd given that scotland is the global redhead centre!
It’s a bit complicated, both because some studies just asked people if they are ‘natural redheads’ and didn’t actually test whether they have the MCR1 mutation and because it depends on the mechanism of action of the drug. Some sedatives are less effective, so need higher doses, but the majority of opioid based pain control drugs require lower doses in redheads.
It’s well documented that black people get less care and are prescribed less painkillers because of this myth, as well as the racist assumption that block people seeking out pain relief are just after drugs
I’ve heard that about redheads, but never about black people.
I think the redhead thing is that they have a higher resistance to anesthesia. Just doesn’t work as well.
Red headed black people shouldn’t need painkillers at all.
(I bet I could write a 5 sentence research paper and send it to this dipshit and he’d quote it)
This is what is known as scientific racism. The US has always been the world’s #1 producer or it
Sickle Cell Anemia: This is more common in individuals of African, Mediterranean, Middle Eastern, and Indian descent. The condition is caused by an inherited defect in hemoglobin, which affects red blood cells and can cause pain and other serious complications.
Cystic Fibrosis: This genetic disorder is more common in people of European descent, especially those with Northern or Central European ancestry. It affects the lungs, digestive system, and other organs.
Hypertension (High Blood Pressure): Hypertension is more prevalent in Black Americans than in other racial groups. The reasons for this are multifactorial, including genetics, socioeconomic status, and environmental factors. African Americans are also at higher risk for complications from hypertension, such as stroke and kidney disease.
Type 2 Diabetes: This is more common in Native American, Hispanic, and African American populations. Genetic factors play a role, along with lifestyle factors such as diet and physical activity levels.
Lactose Intolerance: People of East Asian, West African, Native American, and Mediterranean descent are more likely to be lactose intolerant, meaning they have difficulty digesting lactose, a sugar found in dairy products. This is due to lower levels of lactase, the enzyme that breaks down lactose.
Breast Cancer: While breast cancer affects women of all races, African American women are more likely to develop certain aggressive forms of breast cancer, such as triple-negative breast cancer, which tends to have a poorer prognosis. On the other hand, white women are more likely to be diagnosed with breast cancer at an earlier age.
Prostate Cancer: Prostate cancer is more common in Black men, who are also more likely to be diagnosed at a younger age and experience more aggressive forms of the disease.
Asthma: Asthma is more prevalent among Black and Hispanic children in the United States. Environmental factors, such as exposure to air pollution, and socioeconomic factors, like access to healthcare, contribute to these disparities.
Skin Cancer (Melanoma): While melanoma is more common in people with lighter skin, such as those of European descent, it tends to be diagnosed at a later stage in people with darker skin, such as Black and Hispanic individuals, due to lower awareness and delayed diagnosis.
Thalassemia: A blood disorder more common in individuals of Mediterranean, African, or Southeast Asian descent. It involves the body making an abnormal form of hemoglobin, leading to anemia.
Tay-Sachs Disease: This genetic disorder, which leads to the progressive destruction of nerve cells in the brain and spinal cord, is more common in Ashkenazi Jewish individuals but also affects people of French-Canadian, Cajun, or certain Eastern European origins.
This is pretty disingenuous, the vast majority of sickle cell cases are non-hispanic blacks. Hispanics and whites also get sickle cell. If you’re grouping all those ethnicities in there, you might as well include whites too.
First of all, you are confusing ethnicity and race. Second, most of your examples are entirely caused by social factors.
That’s a nice list of red herrings. Those are all facts supported by evidence gathered through research. The point of the article is that RFK Jr has made, and continues to make, claims of fact that have no evidentiary basis, and in many cases directly contradict the available evidence.
Then why did Hobbes_Dent complain the list didn’t have enough examples of Caucasian issues?
Then why did Hobbes_Dent complain the list didn’t have enough examples of Caucasian issues?
I don’t care, and neither should anyone else. The fact that there are genetic propensities for disease that are more prevalent among ethnic groups is not relevant to the substance of the article.
It’s also expected, that’s how separate populations of a species tend to behave. See things such as hair color, eye color, ability to digest lactose far into adulthood ect. The fact these differences exist doesn’t mean you can make random claims with no evidence, or in spite of the evidence. That last one is called lying for those in the back.
What’s your point? If you read the article, the point is that the data doesn’t support his claim. Nobody us claiming that race can’t have an affect on how people respond to diseases. Honestly tho, you’re more likely to see differences from individual to individual. This is why we do double blind studies with placebo.
I think their point is not to conflate scientific racism with the actual medical needs of different ethnic backgrounds. Nor to conflate either with scientific misinterpretation, or plain immorality, which is more what Kennedy is advocating for.
The author of the study sums it up quite nicely: the results of this study so not support inequitable vaccination. If we just claim Kennedy is trying to sort humans into different subspecies, that’s just going to muddy the argument that his stance is wrong and immoral.
From Wikipedia:
Before the mid-20th century, scientific racism was accepted throughout the scientific community, but it is no longer considered scientific. The division of humankind into biologically separate groups, along with the assignment of particular physical and mental characteristics to these groups through constructing and applying corresponding explanatory models, is referred to as racialism, racial realism, race realism, or race science by those who support these ideas. Modern scientific consensus rejects this view as being irreconcilable with modern genetic research.
Scientific racism misapplies, misconstrues, or distorts anthropology (notably physical anthropology), craniometry, evolutionary biology, and other disciplines or pseudo-disciplines through proposing anthropological typologies to classify human populations into physically discrete human races, some of which might be asserted to be superior or inferior to others.
From the article:
African Americans have a long history of mistrust in the medical system, rooted in legacies of abuse and mistreatment, including unethical experiments on Black people. Examples include the Tuskegee syphilis study, the gynecology malpractice of J Marion Sims on enslaved Black women and the exploitation of Henrietta Lacks for cancer treatment, all which violated the principles of research ethics. The basis of these events stemmed from exploitation upheld by the idea that race is biological. In 2003, the Human Genome Project found that there is no genetic basis for race and that the term “race” is not biologically meaningful, meaning statements like Kennedy’s are not only outdated, but also false.
Throughout history, two enduring physiological myths – that Black people have a higher pain tolerance and weak lungs that could be strengthened through hard labor – have circulated within the medical community and continue to influence modern medical education and practice. Research has shown that many American physicians, medical students and residents hold incorrect beliefs about biological differences between races, which contribute to racial bias and disparities in pain perception and treatment recommendations. A 2016 survey revealed that of 222 white American medical students and residents, nearly 60% thought Black people’s skin is thicker than white peoples, and 12% thought Black people’s nerve endings were less sensitive than those of white people. Neither is true.
“Spreading false rhetoric that Black people have stronger immune systems recalls this notion of a super-humanization bias, which claims that Black people’s bodies function and endure pain differently,” said Zoé Samudzi, a visiting assistant professor at Clark University. Samudzi, who holds a PhD in medical sociology, fears the rise in misinformation will roll back recent progress across health fields. “Race-based medicine should not be the means of addressing the disparities in health outcomes that fall on the lines of race,” she said.
Not at all what the article or Wikipedia is referring to, but you do you.
So nothing regarding RFK’s ideas about black people and immune response or pain sensitivity?
You are correct.
And what, pray tell, is the use case for this information
General application is that your test groups should be diverse
Not related to RKF jr thinking black people shouldn’t receive medical care so I don’t know why it’s brought up
How dare you come in here with your facts. These people need to be angry about scientific racism!
Next you’re gonna tell me that because I have blue eyes that I am much more sensitive to bright lights than someone with darker colored eyes. You’re just eye racist!
Nah, the problem is extrapolating that into “dark eyes don’t need sunglasses”.
… I never said that? I said blue eyes are more light sensitive than darker eyes. This is verifiably true.
Everyone should have polarized sun glasses, but the level of discomfort someone with blue eyes and someone with brown eyes will have while dealing with the same sunny conditions will be quite different. I have very light blue eyes. Some have called them “icey”. I cannot deal with pretty much any sunlight and I can also have reflections trigger horrible migraines. It’s well documented that lighter colored eyes tend to struggle more often with brightness levels. Kinda like how putting some dark paint on your upper cheeks helps significantly while working outside as it cuts down on the light being bounced into your own eyes by your cheeks.
The problem is that RFK is essentially saying that, not that you said it. Genetic differences shouldn’t be used as a “reason” to deny people proper medical care.
…and you think generic differences should be a reason to deny people proper medical care?
Am I misunderstanding your comment? I have a bit of a headache right now and I feel like I am reading your comment wrong. Please clarify.
Your example of blue eyes not being scientific racism came across as defending RFK’s stance, so my apologies if I misread. I am against denying care to anybody for any reason.
Where are the facts about Caucasian propensities for disease and genetic issues in the list? Partial points for the light skin point.
Incomplete facts. Science huh.
Anything to justify it.
Cystic Fibrosis was listed.
There are genetic diseases more common in each (previously isolated) population. It’s a fact which can be used to target screenings in a way that minimizes residual risks.
Many things in the list are different for socioeconomic reasons as well as genetic reasons. That doesn’t mean the genetic differences don’t exist or that scientific racism is behind them.
Racism is when you treat individuals not according to their own characteristics, but the characteristics (correctly assessed or not) attributed to their race. But public health efforts are not about individuals and often need to use racial background to help provide the care most likely to succeed.
Personal genomics will help us move to more individualized medicine, but it’s not ready or affordable enough to apply to every case at the moment.
And if you think the gaggle of idiots running the country right now (up to and including RFK Jr.) has any intent to make personal genomics affordable to anyone but themselves, I’ve got a fucking bridge to sell you.
I do not. I don’t trust RFK Jr to do anything right except possibly by accident.
Just reinforcing the point that there are legitimate and non-racist uses of race information in medicine.
Edit: Keep in mind that the comment I replied too seemed to take issue with a list of conditions related to genetics that have different propensities in different races. There are racists like Kennedy on the one side and then there are idiots on the other who think that any credence given to nature over nurture is indicative of racism and could not possibly be backed by objective facts.
Is it really too much to ask for Secretaries to at least have some experience or education in the industries they are the head of?
Nah, educated people don’t agree with conspiracy theory nonsense enough to be useful tools.
It’s apparently too much to ask for Secretaries to not be super fucking racist.
Or super fucking rapists
shhh, DEI is the real source of unqualified positions
Poe’s law, ffs. Is this sarcasm? Then use the label
It’s pretty obvious sarcasm with the “shhhh” part.
thanks, “shhh” or “wait, i thought” already presents it as sarcasm without diluting the joke as much as “/s”
Thanks for clarifying
It’s all in Project 2025. They’re purging everyone. Qualifications don’t matter, as long as you’re a Trump bootlicker.
Monkey’s paw curls
Okay, now you’ve got a fracking company CEO as Secretary of Energy.
spoiler
(Never mind that “DoE” is historically really more of a euphemism for the “nuclear department” and thus a fossil fuels dude isn’t actually as “qualified” as he might seem at first glance anyway.)
It’s much more important that they are loyal to the orange dickhead and his agenda of destroying America.
Elect Republicans, get racists.
Pretty simple.
I mean, he already said covid was engineered not to be as bad for Jewish people. We knew who he was.
Is RFK talking out of his arse? Most likely. But there is a lot more MHC variation amongst Africans, I don’t know if that extends to African-Americans because they were mostly taken from a small area. So there are undeniable, medically relevant differences between ethnicities when it comes to the immune system.
Sources or it didn’t happen.
Okay.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4067985/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC2953791/
https://academic.oup.com/gbe/article/15/4/evad054/7092825
I could find hundreds of references if I was being paid, it’s a very well established fact. It’s the reason organ transplant matches can be very difficult to find for people with African ancestry.
Honestly it’s a bit weird to come back and see I’ve been downvoted. Echoes of Lysenkoism.
Thanks for taking the time to get these, and respond. I guess people are very on edge with the current political climate, and are reacting emotionallly to things. Which is partly the reason for the political situation, IMHO.
Anyway, you mentioned differences between ethnicities in regards to immune systems, which doesn’t necessarily lead to “people with African ancestry need fewer vaccines and less healthcare”. Which seems to be the racists excuse.
Trump doesn’t give a shit about this fool. RFK jr withdrew from the race and he’s lucky that trump even nominated him rather throwing him aside like a burger wrapper.
