tilthat: TIL a philosophy riddle from 1688 was recently solved. If a man born blind can feel the differences between shapes such as spheres and cubes, could he, if given the ability, distinguish those objects by sight alone? In 2003 five people had their sight restored though surgery, and, no they could not.

nentuaby: I love when apparently Deep questions turn out to have clear empirical answers.

  • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.worldEnglish
    51·
    1 year ago

    They say this but we have the color wheel. It is trivial to find clothing that goes together, or colors that can invoke a mood. If we really did have alternative experiences I cant imagine it wouldn’t have been qualified, understood, and addressed by marketing already.

    Orange and blue means action

    https://yesimadesigner.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/9-768x1139.jpg

    https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/110/2186618/original/the-dark-knight-films-photo-u19?w=650&q=50&fm=pjpg&fit=fill&bg=fff

    https://www.femalefirst.co.uk/image-library/port/1000/f/fantastic-four-group-poster.jpg

    http://ayay.co.uk/movies/poster/superhero/daredevil-elektra-teaser.jpg

    https://comic-cons.xyz/wp-content/uploads/marvel-cinematic-universe-captain-marvel-movie-poster.jpg

    • Natanael@slrpnk.netEnglish
      4·
      1 year ago

      Looking at it with the concept of mathematical equivalence in mind, the behavior can be almost the same yet internal representation can still be wildly different

    • agent_flounder@lemmy.worldEnglish
      3·
      1 year ago

      I am skeptical that colors universally bring about moods or concepts. One would have to prove this is true despite cultural conditioning that ascribes meaning to different colors.

      I also doubt that each person experiences colors in a significantly unique way. Unless we can show that the receptors in our retinas, or the neurons receiving those signals, behave differently from person to person. I have to wonder if widely appealing art (that uses color) could even exist if we didn’t share the underlying mechanisms of seeing and reacting to its colors.

      • afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        1 year ago

        Very well. How do we account for the associations we all have? Who sat you down and told you that distant colors should invoke excitement? That vibrant colors were fun to look at? That judges almost universally in cultures separated in time and geography should wear black or that red would be popular with people one rank below the boss? Or that cool light means focus and warm light means relax?

        I just find this whole idea that it is just cultural to be indirect contradictuon to what I have seen. Especially when I am thinking about all those traditional artforms. People a thousand years before I was born making stainglass, or murals, or painted pagodas that are still amazing to look at despite the vast differences in cultures between me and the artist.

        I also don’t recall the conversation when I was a kid in trailer park in the Appalachian Mountains when my parents say me down and said “remember to feel a sense of awe and dread if you ever see a 1200 year old Buddha statue wearing a white/gray robe popular among Indian Royality from that time”. Pretty sure I would remember that conversation and it also wouldn’t have been a gut reaction.

        • agent_flounder@lemmy.worldEnglish
          5·
          1 year ago

          I didn’t say I was opposed to the idea or that I was discounting it out of hand. I simply said I was skeptical (unwilling to believe something just because someone says so) and mentioned a way to think through it scientifically. Then You kind of bombarded me with a lot of claims and anecdotes… Eek. Hold your fire lol

          Those are all compelling things you list and it piques my curiosity further. But these things aren’t rock solid evidence. Sure it’s possible. But not very convincing. We can do better. So yeah, I’m curious to tease out what color associations are learned versus hardwired.

          “What you have seen” never makes for unassailable evidence on its own. That’s because you, like every other one of us humans, is affected by myriad cognitive biases that can skew your conclusions. (Which is how we got superstitions and old wives tales)

          Also, it almost sounds like your argument is that the only way for these associations to occur is through being taught directly and explicitly. But there are other ways to learn things. Kids pick up on all kinds of unspoken things. When going, they often look to their parents for their reaction to some things. They learn a considerable amount of language without being explicitly taught. Musical associations happen without explicit teaching and that definitely varies by culture.

          One can just seek evidence to support their conclusion and ignore all the other possible causes or counter examples or whatever else.

          For example, cool light (by this you mean light on the blue end) means focus and warm light (on the red end) means relax. Hardwiring is one explanation. But simple learned associations could be another.

          Assuming it is true, perhaps orange / yellow / red tints make us relaxed because of associations with sunsets and candlelight. Or something along those lines. Would humana who grew up with a star producing a different light spectrum have a different interpretation? Can people be trained with different associations?

          The premise itself has to be tested as well. Is it truly Universal across many cultures? How many cultures have you proven this to hold for? And how did you prove it? By asking? Or by sound experiments? Were those experiments duplicated by others?

          Oh also you are unlikely to remember much of anything prior to the age of 3 (give or take). So maybe your parents did have those conversations but at a very young age.

          Maybe studies have been done about a lot of these things. I would be curious to see them. But now I’m tired and need to turn my brain off.