- Star Wars Disney Plus shows should move away from Jedi-centric stories and explore other aspects of the Star Wars universe
- Andor is a successful example of a Star Wars show without Jedi, focusing on the Empire’s control and morally gray characters
- Suggestions for new Star Wars show ideas include Pod Racing, Jawa Storage Wars, and One Man and His Droid, among others
Yeah, hard agree. “Andor was great because it wasn’t about Jedi” is the wrong lesson to take.
Andor was great because it was made by people who were deeply passionate about what they were doing. They took the set dressing and the context that Star Wars offered and they used it to tell an incredibly powerful story of resistance against fascist oppression, everything that means and entails and what it costs. They created something powerful and vital that deserves and needs to exist.
We need more media that was created out of passion. We need artists to be set free to make art, not shackled to producing whatever a studio thinks is popular. That doesn’t mean it all has to be high minded, subtle or complex; John Wick was a work of artistic passion and it shows. The art is “Look how cool it is when Keanu Reeves shoots people”, but that can be art too. Subtle, complex morality plays or guns and explosions, or Jedi having lightsaber duels. It doesn’t matter. What matters is that people creating it really, really give a shit about what they’re making, and are allowed to make it the way they want to.
Or in short: we need more things that were made because someone wanted to tell that particular story, not because someone needed to fill a slot in a release schedule.
Yeah, too often stories involve just phoning parts in (or the majority, as was the case with episode 8). The story they end up releasing is full of plot holes and tactical and strategic errors.
They didn’t even try to create a coherent sequel trilogy arc and gave the different pieces to different people, one of whom didn’t really like star wars fans (though to be fair, I enjoyed that aspect at the time because the fanbase can be pretty toxic and Kylo Ren, from my interpretation, was making fun of toxic fans who turn their passion into shit for others they deem unworthy), and the other seemed to hate star wars itself. At least, that’s the only way I can understand how episode 8 ended up being such a steaming pile of shit. Rian hated heroes and people not following orders and shoehorned those positions into a series that heavily features heroes improvising in ways that often went directly against what they were told to do.
See, I feel like you’re missing the point here when you bring up Last Jedi as your negative example.
If you didn’t like the movie, fair play, that’s your deal, but it is most certainly not an example of something being phoned in. Whatever else you may feel about Last Jedi, whether or not you agree with the choices it made, it was clearly made with passion and intent. Rian had an artistic vision for the movie, he had things he wanted to say. The reason it gets so much hate is mostly because the things he wanted a) didn’t mesh with what the fans wanted to hear, and b) didn’t really line up with what anyone else involved in new Star Wars wanted to say. What he offered was a very bold, very different new direction for the series, but it was a road that no one else was interested in going down. And you can fairly make the argument that that’s a failing as a film-maker; sometimes you need to know your audience. But either way, it was the story that he wanted to tell, so much so that it ended up not being the story that anyone wanted to hear.
If you want to talk about movies that exist just to exist, that were made without passion or purpose, you’re looking for Rise of Skywalker.
There were still gaping holes in the plot.
Like the resistance characters go from not believing light speed tracking is possible to guessing how it must be done and therefore a weakness in two breaths.
No one thinks to scatter the fleet to sacrifice one ship but save the rest.
If they could use shuttles to jump to other planets for side missions, why not make more use of that to help their hopeless situation?
That light speed ram taking out that massive star destroyer basically just said they were doing space battles wrong this whole time. Don’t bother putting resources into fighters, bombers, and all that, just strap light speed engines to various masses and use them as missiles.
How does Rose go from retreating with the rest to being able to intercept Finn’s speeder thing, crash into it at high speed when he would have been going all out to make his intended suicide attack most effective? Plus they both walk away from it? Ignoring the injuries such a collision would have caused, plus their close proximity to enemy forces who then just ignore them or something?
And what’s with those bombers? What were they designed for, taking out undefended settlements on planets?
And Luke just decides fuck his friends, the best thing he can do is die alone on that planet? Why not die helping them, which would also result in the Jedi order dying out but not handing the galaxy to the first order. Sure, he did eventually help, but he shouldn’t have needed that much convincing. And the whole force projection oh now I’m dead thing was also weak.
Also Yoda using the force to burn down that tree as a force ghost begs questions similar to the light speed ramming. Why don’t the force ghosts help instead of just messing with whoever needs advice?
Also Luke, the same guy who threw his lightsaber away because he believed Darth Vader could still be turned back just thinks, “oh, he’s farther along to the dark side than I thought, better kill him” strongly enough to turn on his lightsaber while standing over him?
I agree that there was a failure to know his audience. If he did like star wars, what he liked about it didn’t overlap much with what most liked about it, though I suspect he didn’t really care for it but thought that was his chance to fix it into something he did like.
I didn’t agree with his hierarchy is important message and didn’t think it fit in Star Wars, given it’s about rebellion and heroes defying the odds to do incredible things. And while I do agree that the whole “special people go on a special mission and save the day” thing is problematic, it’s a core part of Star Wars and not something to change 8 episodes in. But these are things that fit your argument.
So I don’t think he was passionate about Star Wars. But all the rest is just sloppy IMO.
This is a classic example of the Cinema Sins school of criticism that has completely rotted our collective ability to actually engage with art on an intellectual level; identify something that feels incongruous to you, label it as a “plot hole” and mark up one point in the “sins” tally. Rinse, repeat. Many sins = bad movie.
And I’m sorry but this is a terrible way to approach media, and one that will destroy your enjoyment of a lot of truly excellent art.
Also, if you took “hierarchies are important” as being the message of the movie, you really, really didn’t get it, because it’s literally saying the exact opposite. But that’s a whole other discussion.
Your biggest complaint here seems to be that in your opinion Rian hates Star Wars. Which is very much missing the point of the argument you dove into here. First off, I don’t agree; I think he hates what Star Wars is, and loves what it could be. Hence his herculean effort to steer the ship in a new direction. But even supposing that you were right, and that his goal was just to burn Star Wars to the ground… That would still be a movie that deserves to exist. Hatred is passion. You have to care about something to hate it. Frankly, a movie created by someone who truly hated Star Wars would be a very interesting thing to see, because I’d be curious as to why they hate Star Wars and what they hate so much about it that they would invest that much energy in tearing it down. But that’s not what this is. You don’t write and film moments like Luke’s goodbye to Leia for a story you hate. It’s a movie that’s made out of love, but the kind of love that fuels an intervention. It’s a movie that wants Star Wars to be a very different thing to what it’s become. You don’t have to agree with or like Rian’s vision, but it’s clear that he has a vision, and it’s one that he deeply cares about.
I can’t agree that lazy writing is something that needs to be overlooked in excellent art. Writing is an important part of storytelling media and excellent writing is a part of excellent art IMO.
And no, that wasn’t the message of the movie, but it was a message of the movie, though tbf I can’t tell if it was trying to communicate that the mistake was Holdo refusing to communicate her plan or Poe refusing to just sit back and follow orders.
Hating what it is is the same as hating it, even with a belief that it can be changed for the better. I think he was trying to change it rather than just burn it to the ground but I also think that people who love someone but think they need to change don’t actually love them but instead love a different idea of them that they aren’t.
Maybe he did have passion for what he was doing, but he either didn’t respect what it was or didn’t understand it.
I stopped reading when they chose 8 to shit on over 7 or 9
I think everything you said here is great, but I’ve been in the “stop making Jedi shit” camp since Rogue One, maybe before.
And funnily enough, AI powered tools will help with this. It’ll allow more singular or low number group creatives to take on works that would have required full studio teams (and the money to back said teams) in the past