Don’t commit crimes in the biggest business capital on the planet and maybe it won’t be an issue? Manhattan has a physically very small amount of space that a bunch of people want to be in. If you don’t want to play by their rules then go somewhere else. Everyone who moves out because of their politics will lose money, and there are plenty of people who are happy to make the money you give up on. Sorry the market decided it didn’t want you, don’t let the door hit you on the way out
If your business model is grift and fraud, then yes, please move your business out.
It’s good advice for businesses that keep two entirely different sets of books depending on whether they’re getting loans or paying taxes. I think there’s a word for that. Oh yeah, fraud. Look what Obama has done to this country. Can’t even commit fraud anymore.
i predict a New York business boom
Business has been declining in New York since 2019.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/new-york-california-each-lost-assets-financial-firms-fled-south
These are high-paying jobs that are gone and are not coming back.
https://www.thecentersquare.com/new_york/article_c805dfd6-dde6-11ec-8d0e-4f667cd41881.html
Over 19.5 billion lost from people leaving.
Not sure why you think a boom is going to happen when everything points to the opposite.
Gee whiz mister, was there something that happened between 2019 and 2020 that might impact statistics in a way that might not make them super accurate models for the future?
Woah woah woah, hold your horses. The paragon of truth mod team has spoken. You’re a troll if you deny the facts winter laid out.
Trump’s ability to do business in New York will certainly decline
Agreed. New York is on the decline. It’s not really to do with New York itself though - Covid has hammered all big cities in the USA. Remote work made companies realize they can get the same work done without the crazy cost of paying for workspace. See the same in 3 other cities I have customers - Houston has an ongoing exodus of higher paying jobs due to unpopular Texas policies combined with remote work. I used to go there on a monthly basis. Our office there closed in December, and we’re a leading IT company. Raleigh NC is another example like that, but not quite as bad. Basically any city with a high percentage of jobs that migrated to remote work have been hit hard. What follows those jobs leaving is decline of all the restaurants and other businesses that depend on those folks living there and spending money. I have one co-worker that moved from Houston to Sault St. Marie Michigan - wayyy up north. He literally got in a bidding war for a house up there. Pre-covid that would have never happened. I have another peer that lived in Detroit proper, and is now living on the Oregon coast a stones throw from CA. Of course these are all anecdotal accounts, but the stats I’ve read all point to a system change away from urban centers prompted by remote work. I know that’s what it was for me too.
Which unpopular policies? I have seen nothing but crazy growth in my Texas customers. I don’t have any directly in New York but I have many financial customers who have moved out of New York because of all the taxation. I travel often and Chicago is not what it used to be. I blame COVID for that. That was a cool city until COVID wrecked it.
Oregon Coast is nice. Go look at home prices and see how much they have jumped. That is the COVID effect.
In the case of Houston, The extremist abortion bans and what it is doing to women. Also in the case of Houston, the corrupt Paxton situation. Information technology folks want nothing to do with that kind of stuff, and they can basically live where they want, so those kinds of policies are driving IT folks out and that was the main thing driving Houston. It is also driving out doctors. If You look into the statistics since the road decision, doctors are already leaving red safe because of the anti-science anti-vax stuff. Now with abortion bans etc. that has further accelerated the exodus of medical professionals from these red states. Go pull up the doctor to patient ratios for Red cities. basically every red city is declining and blue cities and states are increasing.
I absolutely agree New York taxation It is a part of it. any of these big cities with increased taxes, if a business has moved to remote work and doesn’t need a physical presence there, why would they continue to do business there and pay those higher taxes. but that’s a universal thing, many many big cities have dedicated separate taxes, hell even Pontiac Michigan has separate taxes, lol.
Go pull up the doctor to patient ratios for Red cities. There are few red cities or at least what we would consider a city. Cities tend to lean blue. Most doctors don’t want to be rural. I didn’t want to go rural after medical school.
Abortion laws are driving away OBGYN and I don’t blame them. It doesn’t appear to be driving away other doctors. If I was still practicing, I would move because of the law unless I was tied to abortion to some degree.
Most financial companies require onsite work. They rarely allow remote work due to regulations. It’s why so many have moved to Florida.
My cousin lived in Texas until last year. He’s an ENT and his youngest kiddo is a 2yo girl. Doctors are in short supply, they can move wherever they want just like IT workers. He moved for the sake of his daughter, even though she was only two at the time.
My company is offering priority relocation on any workers that are located in states that ban abortion. That contributed dramatically to the closure of the Houston office.
Red / MAGA policies are unpopular with a majority of college graduates. From everything I have seen in read, there is a brain drain going on that isn’t immediately evident or being actively reported on. It will be blatantly obvious in the coming years though.
Heck, My sister lived in Orlando and they moved back to Michigan when they couldn’t get a vaccine for their toddler because of DeSantis, and because of book banning and other crazy with the schools.
Chicago was falling apart before covid. I have a bunch of family that we visit all the time. My aunt and uncle moved to North Carolina shortly after getting robbed at gunpoint before covid. Rahmbo started turning it into a warzone by getting rid of Cabrini–Green and sprinkling low income housing into every neighborhood.
I felt pretty safe in Chicago before COVID. Well except after Jussie got attacked. That happened about a block from me when I was walking home from a night out. That was unsettling to think MAGA people would jump someone in the middle of Chicago. Other than that, my life was very peaceful and quiet. I enjoyed Chicago immensely. I can’t even stomach going back now because of how sad it’s become. The last few times, it didn’t feel as safe. Less cops, more thugs, and the city was a lot dirtier. Lots of the stores and places I used to go were shut down and boarded up.
Mr. Wonderfuls whole argument is disingenuous.
He says forget Trump , and then goes through it all, but Trump did the fraud consistently to a level noone else would ever dream of.
Most people who do this type of fraud add 20% value perhaps to squeeze a bit more cash out of it. Trump went full on 500% valuation on things that will never add up or reach the value.
It’s a clear difference, not another one of these "both sides’ type arguments they try to lower everyone down to.
The bank accepted those numbers. The bank testified as a witness for Trump. They said they did not lose money. The forms clearly stated these were made up numbers.
Fraud typically requires a victim. This is the only fraud case I know of that there is no victim. That is the point Mr wonderful is making. We are not punishing people when all parties were fine with the deal and there is no victim.
Fraud requires a crime and evidence.
The people of the state are the victim. While everyone else (the people) has to play by the rules, Trump chose to not play by the rules. The act alone is the unlawful activity, not the result.
The state isn’t damaged. The bank is would be the victim and they said they were not damaged. They reviewed the data, made adjustment and issued the loans.
First time there has been a victimless fraud lawsuit.
Yeah man I see your comments all over the thread and it’s just you repeating the same talking points about an activity you seemingly are not currently comprehending.
I Comprehend just fine. We will see what scotus says about the case. I suspect they’ll overturn it.
If I was a betting person, and I am, I’d bet it’s not going to make it past the first level of appeal (state appellate court), let alone get to SCOTUS. Plus, it’s a state case, not federal, so it’s even less likely to end up before SCOTUS.
I’m not sure you understand how courts work. The appellate court is just a step to SCOTUS. SCOTUS rarely hears cases until the lower courts have had a chance to have an opinion. A state case has nothing to do with whether SCOTUS will hear it or not. That is some weird logic. SCOTUS deals with laws and whether they are constitutional.
https://reason.com/volokh/2024/01/14/new-yorks-civil-lawsuit-against-trump-is-unconstitutional/
Since the primary motivation is to stop him from running for president, this concerns our Republic. I get you like fascist policies and people, but I don’t. No American should. As the other developers have said this is crazy shit. Why many have publically announced they won’t do business in NY and the governor released a comment in response.
Lol let me just read some fox news really quick…
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Hey, it’s just business, that’s what you do! You haggle. Nobody got hurt so what’s the big deal? Everyone does it. Lying is ok. When it’s business. I don’t know what you guys are being so righteous about.
Plus, Donald Trump was the President of the United States. Think about that! How’s it going to look if we try to hold a political leader to some arbitrary moral standard just for lying and shady business dealings?! They don’t do that in Russia, that’s for sure.
That’s what fraud is. When someone is damaged.
It’s why several business have said they are leaving New York and the governor sent out a statement.
Like or dislike Trump. Using the court systems to attack a political opponent is terrifying. That’s what a fascist leader does. They weaponize the court system.
Absolutely. Punishing people for fraudulent financial statements makes a mockery of our judicial system.
Who was the victim? Who lost money ?
These are good questions. Here are some more:
Who used false statements in business? Who intended to falsify business records? Who intended to conspire to falsify business records? Who intended to issue a false financial statement? Who intended to conspire to issue a false financial statement? Why are any of these things illegal in New York?
Irrelevant. Fraud requires a victim. Who was the victim?
So for those of you reading along at home, wintermule doesn’t dispute that there were false business records and false financial statements issued, nor dispute that there was intent to do so, nor dispute that there was conspiracy to do so.
People are like " Meh, sure we know he’s a liar and a crook, but whaddya gonna do? He’s our leader! You can’t punish him for breaking the law when nobody got hurt!"
Shameless.
No not false. Unaudited and the bank was aware and made adjustments. You really didn’t listen to anything in the case did you ?
This is how all commercial loans are done.
Apparently you the way you cry to everybody about it.
“Trump lied and got more money? But who’s money? That’s right, nobody!”
I get you don’t mind fascism but normal people do. Weaponizing the courts isn’t acceptable. No victim. No lost money. Everyone made money. The banks ever testified they’d do the deals again and hope to work with him in the future.
Sounds like you feel like you are th victim.
