Archive link. https://archive.is/N4Rqj

Some personal editorializing: This is a pretty remarkable first because of how captive we Americans are to pharma prices. Famously, when Medicare Part D was brought into existence by law it restricted the federal government from negotiating Part D drug prices. To me, shopping for drugs in Canada is tackling the symptom and ignores the cause. I wonder if this gets more traction with more states how it might affect drug prices in Canada, too.

The real solution to all this, of course, would be nationalize the healthcare industry in all aspects and to create a single payer healthcare system.

  • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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    10 months ago

    American heritage dictionary

    That’s an extremely vague definition, especially when “working class” and “upper class” are also very vague.

    Here’s the calculator Pew provides, along with its definition, and AFAIK that’s what’s used in articles like this that discuss the shrinking middle class.

    There’s no objective definition everyone agrees on, but I think Pew’s is fair and makes things really objective and easy to track, and it seems a lot of news agencies use their definitions, so I will too.

    mean wage of a restaurant food manager

    Mean is not median, so this is lumping in regional managers and whatnot which skews it heavily upward. I’m talking about the shift managers at a single store, someone hired by a franchisee to handle day to day operations. They won’t be there flipping burgers unless they’re severely understaffed, so they’re firmly in “manager” territory.

    I use “median” when I talk about averages in terms of demographics, because that has the nice property of splitting a group into two of equal size.

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      That’s an extremely vague definition, especially when “working class” and “upper class” are also very vague.

      Welcome to political science, where there aren’t neeat and tidy financialized definitions of every word we use. I get our disconnect, though, you’re hung up on numbers and I’m hung up on words and we’re just talking past each other.

      • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        And that’s why the numbers exist, no? So we have a common, objective common ground?

        Something vague like “worker” can be interpreted however you choose to suit your argument. Are doctors and surgeons “workers”? They work with their hands. If we limit it to uneducated people, what about professional athletes drafted from high school? Maybe playing sports doesn’t count. What about landscapers or general contractors, some can make hundreds of thousands if they service high end customers. Ok, maybe limit it to hourly employees, not small business owners. There are also lots of apprenticeship-based jobs that can pay six figs for highly proficient individuals.

        It makes a lot more sense to just use income ranges for class segmentations instead of something vague that can be manipulated based on the discussion.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          No, numbers exist to measure and count objective things. How much numerical comfort do people need or deserve? How much free time? How much happiness? Ridiculous

          • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            10 months ago

            Yes, like “how many people are middle class vs working class?” or “how much does the typical person earn?”

            Free time is something that can also be objectively measured, just look at psychological profiles of people who are burned out, depressed, etc vs those that are happy with their work-life balance. Take the standard deviation of that and time off should be above that.

            Happiness isn’t really an objective thing, but there are lots of factors that can be objectively measured, like correlation between income and self-reported happiness.

            If we’re talking about public policy, we need to be objective, we shouldn’t just make policy based on feel.

            • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              Free time is something that can also be objectively measured, just look at psychological profiles of people who are burned out, depressed, etc vs those that are happy with their work-life balance. Take the standard deviation of that and time off should be above that.

              This is quite telling.

              First, you presuppose that we should work people right up until the limit of psychological stress. Find out how much is too much work and then make them work slightly less than that.

              Then, you presuppose you can just prescribe a one size fits all solution. As if we all burn out at the same rate, as if every job has the same burnout rate, it’s all very mechanical and neat.

              Further, you presuppose that you can even objectively evaluate psychological profiles!

              You even presuppose that free time is value neutral, so that the quality of free time is irrelevant and only quantity matters.

              Basically, by only sticking to numbers, you failed to do the most basic thing: ask workers how much free time they would like. You don’t care what they want. You think there’s an objective answer that can be arrived at mathematically.

              • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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                10 months ago

                First, you presuppose that we should work people right up until the limit of psychological stress

                I didn’t say that.

                I said that’s the minimum time off.

                Then, you presuppose you can just prescribe a one size fits all solution

                Again, I didn’t say that.

                I didn’t suggest any solutions, I merely gave objective measures for the examples you gave. Those are useful at a high level for policy decisions and whatnot, though any kind of broad measure will break down at the individual level. We’re not talking about individuals here, we’re talking about politics.

                objectively evaluate psychological profiles

                Again, I didn’t say that.

                I said that psychological profiles can be used to draw statistical conclusions. Individual psychological profiles are inaccurate, but over a sufficiently large, random sample, they should average out to a useful metric for a given study.

                free time is value neutral

                Again, I didn’t say that.

                I’m talking about broad metrics across a population, not at an individual level. Individuals should negotiate something that works better for them. I personally value time off more than equivalent pay, while several of my coworkers feel the opposite way.

                ask workers how much free time they would like

                Sure, that’s what a usual metric, especially if you compare current time off vs desired time off, along with the rest of the data (e.g. do people who burn out want more time off, or are they not using the time they have?).

                When trying to solve systemic problems like depression, reduced productivity, or high turnover, more data is almost always better.

                • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  I didn’t say that.

                  You did! You said “Take the standard deviation of that and time off should be above that.” How am I supposed to read that as anything other than “look at what level of work causes burnout/depression/etc. and then give them enough time off above that”?

                  I didn’t suggest any solutions

                  We must have had a miscommunication because, again, it sure sounded like you were proposing how much time off people should get i.e. “Take the standard deviation of that and time off should be above that.”

                  Individual psychological profiles are inaccurate, but over a sufficiently large, random sample, they should average out to a useful metric for a given study.

                  I’m talking about broad metrics across a population, not at an individual level

                  So what do you do with people who fall outside the normal standard deviation? If someone needs more time off than average, what do you propose we do with them?

                  Sure, that’s what a usual metric

                  imo the usual metric is the market rate. You get as much time off as the market will allow.