- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.zip/post/1338851
Archived version: https://archive.ph/yDjTx
Archived version: https://web.archive.org/web/20230811193345/https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-fire-all-regional-military-recruitment-chiefs-zelenskiy-2023-08-11/
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GOD i hate these STUPID hexbears SO much it makes my SKIN crawl… Sure hope they’re not reading this thread and brigading you… Eek!
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Spoken like somebody who is definitely not mad.
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Definitely, definitely not. mad.
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You came out the gate with big mad tantrum insults, and now you expect people to have a dialogue with you?
You were never interested in “trying to have a conversation”
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“Everyone knows that the left and the right are the same and that the REASONABLE MODERATE CENTER is best! Right? Right? It’s not as though Biden is a war criminal rapist segregationist and virtually the twin brother of Trump, right? America might have some problems (ongoing slavery, genocide, imperialism, civilizational suicide via climate change) but it’s still overall a force for good, right???”
I get that you guys love seeing trump do stupid shit and abuse his power as president, because it vindicates your view of the US government, but still, the asshole that tells his fans to harass people and shits on rule of law is objectively worse than the ones who didn’t, please. I thought one of hexbear’s redeeming qualities was at least anti-homophobia, anti-misogyny, etc. This whole “trump is no worse than anyone else” is just crypto-trumpism and one example of why you guys are accused of being the lefty version of MAGAts.
Roe v. Wade was undone and LGBTQ+ rights are collapsing with Biden and the Democrats running the country. Biden also regularly sends the police to deport and/or imprison anyone who isn’t white. Nobody loves or funds the 100% nazi police more than Biden; Biden has actually signed MORE drilling permits than Trump. Biden and Trump are fascists, as are you for excusing them.
I’m not an American… I goddamn hate this American-centrism so many Americans have online. Get a grip, you’re not the center of the planet.
I’m a leftwing proudly out homosexual, voted for the marxist party in my country in Europe, and voted leftwing my entire life before that. I’ve got friends who were trained by greenpeace to climb nuclear power plants. If you asked a centrist I’d be part of the extreme left (well everyone in Europe would be by America’s standards).
But sure, if you feel better about me being an American centrist in your headcannon, and my problem not being the general toxicity of what I saw in that community, then so be it.
lol what
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I’m frightened to ask about what their positions are on any policy at all. Let me guess: do what amerikkka says or your are helping putler. That kind of “marxist”?
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“I reject them both” = i luv amerikkka
It’s really amazing. “I reject them both, but very curiously I only criticize one. Why could that be?“🤔
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Your assumption that Ukraine is an independent country is already an implicit endorsement of American imperialism and slavery. Ukraine has not been independent since the Maidan Coup in 2014. There are recordings of Victoria Nuland confirming this; to deny it means that you are living in a fantasy realm, one paid for with the blood of slaves in the global south. And when you recognize that American imperialism and settler colonialism is a boot on the neck of the global south, you likewise understand that anyone fighting it deserves our critical support, even if they are not angels. Besides, even if everything liberals say about Russia is true, the Iraq War alone is and was a far greater crime than anything [the liberal Harry Potter-esque fantasy of] Putin could dream of. And besides, wasn’t the modern nation state of Russia created by American liberals in the first place? How much money did Clinton give Yeltsin in the 1990s?
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Hexbear User here: where did you see people claim Putin’s Russia being a bastion of leftism?
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I’m going to let someone more educated on the geopolitics involved handle the rest of this (hopefully someone will) but i really want to zero in on this because.
there are like, 2 cishet people on all of Hexbear. Its like the most queer space on the internet thats not explicitly only for queer people… It is AGRESSIVLY pro-trans, and purged the slightest hints of transphobia in its early days. The admin team is 100% queer i’m pretty sure.
We think the oppression of queer people in Russia is bad. Whatever support an individual Hexbear has for Russia, its not for Putin’s regime or the Russian government. It is, as you yourself say, opposition to NATO. Again, I’m not going to get into the why of that, but please don’t imply that we support the Russian government’s oppression of queer people.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3717499
This one is very much pro Russia, as he himself said in the comments.
As he refers to it as needing our “critical support”
I’ve never had as heated of a discussion online as I’ve enjoyed with your community. This isn’t a good thing. It feels as if members of your community thrive on the negative emotions rather than productive debate. The few normal responses I’ve gotten from people like yourself are too far in between.
I do appreciate your normal response. I know your community is an inclusive space, but personally as a member myself of the lgbtqia+ community it’s not a space I would consider welcoming for the aforementioned reason.
I’ve been called a Roma hater, ironic as I even donate to them, that I must have swastika tattooed Ukrainians as friends, and that obviously I must be a fascist.
It’s unironically the unsafest safe space I’ve ever encountered. I hope the sample I received is not indicative, but at this point I don’t think it matters anymore.
What do you think critical support means?
If that’s really true, you may well be the most sheltered person on earth.
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Spare me the self-righteousness, if “the people I was rude too were rude back to me” is something you can describe as “the most unsafe space I have ever encountered” without feeling deeply embarrassed, then you have no business trying to pontificate about what actually marginalised people endure. No amount of cope about how you’re totally definitely not big mad, but your girlfriend in Canada is, will change that.
So you didn’t know what it meant, but you used it to insult someone anyway?
It means support from a place of criticism, in the sense of “I don’t agree with them in general, but align on certain things”.
Look, I’ll back up a bit and try to be more sincere here. There are three points I would like you to consider. The first is that your own behaviour has not exactly been free of toxicity. The second is that we on hexbear are used to liberals coming in with naked bad faith hostility, so we’ve, unfortunately fallen to the habit of responding in kind. This leads into my third point; the hostility you describe sounds basically like the bog standard normal that I’ve experienced when trying to converse in mainstream liberal spaces; Hexbear is one of the few spaces where I’m not showered with abuse for the crime of having a political alignment outside the overton window of a country I’m not even from.
I’ve exactly responded to you about that already. I agreed with you on that, I don’t think I can level with you more than I have already and repeating it would make me a broken clock. You can re-read that here: https://programming.dev/comment/1902404
That however doesn’t mean we can’t move past that, I was hoping you could see that in my response to you there, but the way you’ve responded to me here was again, an attempt at inflaming things. Which confuses me as your current response is actually nice and normal.
I was being sarcastic. That still means support for them. I would never support the US in the Iraq war even if it was against a dictator because I know the US does not have the best interest of the Iraqi people in mind. Similarly Russia (at least Putin) has said he does not have Ukrainians’ best interest in mind, as he believes their culture shouldn’t exist, it’s a mistake they exist. That was in his war declaration speech. I will take him at his word, because why would he lie about that?
I’m also not sure why you’d think that is an insult? Also that posters’ follow up comment referred to my Ukrainian friends, families that are now refugees because of a war as “head tattooed swastika’d nazi’s”. Yeah that’s totally normal…
Oh definitely, I originally was going to write to the response/poster above you that “it might be best if I refrained from interacting as this is the first time I’m having a difficult time to not respond respectfully” (well honestly I’d never respond respectfully to a Nazi, but you all aren’t that, you deserve understanding). But at this point every time were it simmers down someone, comes barging in and throws some negative response my way such as “oh poor you, so sheltered” as if it’s productive in any shape or form. Aside from my OP I’ve responded to individuals in kind, both negatively and positively, it’s hard to respond positively to someone calling me a Roma hater, or telling me I voted for fascists however, so in those instances I will definitely respond negatively.
I’ve always tried to respond respectfully even if my first post was coloured by my interactions with the community. And you can re-read my responses to see exactly that. Even to the poster I responded to before you came in I said I appreciated the more normal response I got.
I’m really sorry you went through that, you really shouldn’t have. Though I don’t see why that means you feel free to respond to me in that manner, I’m not a liberal or the person who perpetuated that abuse on to you.
And without doxxing myself (which at this point I’d never thrust your community, which I think you’d understand) I also cannot prove I actually voted for the marxist party (which one of your community members rightly referred to as fascist ofcourse /s ). I’m merely pointing out that’s extremely dangerous for when you get it wrong. I do believe you can see that.
I’m absolutely happy you get to enjoy that, I really mean that. To me the individual always deserves respect even if the ideology is something I disagree with (and I don’t disagree with hexbear’s ideology, I mostly agree). Exception for Nazi’s for obvious reasons though.
Sounds like someone else has already explained the critical support thing to you, I didnt really understand the term at first either and English IS my first language, so I actually understand this one.
I hope you can see that my comrade’s defensive stance is because of past experiances and not anything personal.
I actually dont disagree that people here sometimes make unfair assumptions about the person they’re talking to. I remember the human and understand where they’re coming from and why that assume that though (past experiences with people who are like that). I wish my friends would try to remember the human more too, but I get why they can forget because of their experiences. I hope that makes sense.
Thank you for your response.
It makes sense, but tbh victimizing random strangers isn’t a solution (I don’t feel like a victim, just putting it into words of how dangerous I think this can be). And I do hope you understand where I’m coming from, with the understanding this might be my very skewed view, it’s this that made me consider your community dangerous, especially for minority groups. It feels like weaponized anger, where dissenting thoughts are attacked intensively (as I’ve experienced here, and I for the most part agree with hexbear’s ideological/social stance even). I think that’s fine for your community, but it’s this why I had negative flashbacks to my early days when I stumbled upon places like 4chan. Trolling, flamming, “jokes”, until it wasn’t jokes anymore, then the real problematic elements took over. I truly do hope that what I’ve encountered is a skewed image that isn’t true.
It’s also very difficult to detach action from intent, I sadly can’t read people’s intent when they hurl insults my way, I can only see actions, what they write down. I don’t see past trauma and experiences, only their words they direct at me. Having dealt with people with deep seated trauma in my close friendgroup and beyond, I know those things take time and understanding to get through, and the anger you receive isn’t always intended, but unleashing anger at random internet forum members isn’t a great outlet (well it’s a great outlet for the person with the trauma, but not the receiving people, nobody deserves to be the punching bag to someone else’s trauma).
It’s also a hard ask for me to assume only the best intentions, when I keep being called the worst. But I do enjoy you have talked to me as a person, even when my OP was an unkind opener for this dialogue, I really appreciate it.
I had moved to the fediverse in the hopes of finding the earlier days of internet forums again, smaller communities with a good baseline of respect, where long form debate was more common, including differing opinions (to within reasons ofc, nobody likes a Nazi, and they were hated in the early days luckily), but I’ve not enjoyed that here. I’ve instead experienced hate worse than I have experienced on reddit, when trump was still the big problem, and the best quality responses you’d get from his fanatics is “cope harder” and some pepe images. A time where any debate was just sad responses of “oh you malding” etc… Where the perception of “winning” meant insulting the other person harder, lying about them and continuously moving to other topics.
Perhaps I’ll keep to social events in person, speakeasies etc… It seems social media has just soured permanently. Luckily I’m still part of several inclusive programming communities, that has been enough for now for me, and perhaps it’s better that way.
Thank you very much for your response, I wish you the bests.
I can actually understand all that very well. Sorry about your negative experience
I do want to mention one thing though
Our “weaponized anger” is quiet frequently used in defense of minority groups, particularly trans people. She’s gone now but one of our original admins, TransComrade69, was militantly defensive of trans people and it really shaped how our community formed. We also do our best to do the same for other queer people, bipoc, the disabled and nuerodiverse, women, the poor, and (most relevant to the arguments we get into here) people from the global south.
But I actually do understand how our community’s stance can be offputting for some people and wouldnt recommend it to just anyone, even leftists.
And they definitely deserve all the protection they need. I am fortunate to have some trans friends myself as well, they are definitely the most oppressed group and even frequently the ignored member of the lgbtqia+ by its own members. By comparison I’m definitely the weakest member as a gay man, I have “passed” to varying degrees for a large amount of my life and so have been fortune to dodge some of the atrocities they are subjected to.
If there’s one group that deserves the militant protection in today’s environment it is them. That I can definitely appreciate your community does!