This needs to happen with Appl too. AppleTV app for MacOS + SIP my ass. Its not integral and if you’ve made it so you need to unmake it so, along with other bundled crap. SIP should literally refer to that and only that in aggregate which is necessary to ensure the system is able to function, not per se function in an un-overruleable way for the maker.
Don’t forget TV brands like samsung and LG who force some apps down your throat even if you don’t want them. You can’t remove those apps. Amazon is even worse with their firetv devices, they just install apps on your behalf that you can’t remove. We don’t own anything anymore.
Ya but I can just use a box and not have the TV itself connected to the internet and you can have it in gaming mode so you basically never see the splash screen with all tha crap
I do this as well, but the smart TV bullshit on my Vizio constantly switches itself back on.
I have a button on my remote now that fixes my input by switching to the box in one fell swoop because this happens so much. There is no setting to stop this, as I already have it set to not change the input.
Yes. They should allow removing apps like Safari and, as you said, Apple TV, iMessage, and other non-basic (on a computer) utilities, then downloading them again from the App Store.
On an unrelated note, I also turn off SIP to change the icons of system apps.
Wait Windows users are allowed to manage their software ?!? Get out of town.
As a certified windows user, can confirm, I do not have free will to install anything
You can remove Windows completely from your life with very little effort, no matter where you live and it’s free! In the world of today there is no need whatsoever for that exploitive and in short bad OS anymore.
Agreed, I hate how people blindly use Windows because “that’s what my shitty HP laptop shipped with”
…unless you have a machine that doesn’t run linux well.
If it’s been a while you could try again as the kernel gets updated with support for various hardware.
One of my laptops was awful with Linux but after a good while I tried reinstalling a fresh distro and it ran like a dream.
unless you want your programs to run
I mean some stuff is still running windows 98. What programs are you really needing to run?
Same ol Adobe and Microsoft products
I think almost every Microsoft product has a FOSS alternative (that works in windows usually too) if you want to get away from them. GamePass/The Xbox app/Windows store doesn’t, but that’s almost it. If there isn’t an alternative, it’s not unlikely that it’ll work through WINE. What software specifically are you looking for?
Microsoft office and games with anticheat are two big categories.
God I love people that pretend switching to Linux is for everyone. They’re the same dipshits that install Mint on their grandmothers machine without asking, then get defensive when she takes issue with it.
Like that would fix the OS.
Way too late…I switched away from Windows 100% already. Linux works perfectly fine.
Or just use Bulk Crap Uninstaller
I just bulk crap uninstalled windows and moved to Linux
Linux users truly are the vegans of the tech world.
They seriously cannot stop talking about Linux… At this point, It’s endlessly annoying, as it’s on literally every post about any operating system.
Nearly every post is about Windows or MacOS yet when someone mentions Linux suddenly it’s a problem?
Do you think people never hear about Windows, iOS, Android, etc?
I think you just get irrationally angry when people bring up something you don’t use. We get it, you use Windows btw.
I find it kinda staggering you think it’s not appropriate for someone to mention alternative OSes on a submission where people are criticising an OS lol.
Let’s apply that thinking to another product: Samsung TV does bad thing. Do you think it would be inappropriate or unusual for commenters to mention that other TV brands exist? If not, then why is it different for this other tool?
Ain’t that the truth
In both cases, I’ve encountered a lot more people complaining about them than I have obnoxious Linux users or vegans
People actively seek out annoying people to justify themselves.
Must not be using your eyes much then, or you’re just a bit selective about what you see.
This sounds like some desperate projection to me lol
Vegans care about the well-being of other creatures, so that’s actually a kind comparison.
Too kind for me. There would be more software made for me if others stopped letting proprietary software take advantage of them.
We constantly hear about all the bad shit MS is doing, then somebody points out an alternative, and then people like you get pissed off about it. “NO. I don’t want to hear about the alternatives! I’ll stick to Microsoft, they’ll stop their antics some day, I can fix
herthem ❤️”Maybe if people don’t want to hear about OS alternatives, they should stop complaining about the one they have?
I don’t understand the anger that springs up when people say “this isn’t an issue on Linux”. If your washing machine kept leaking water all over your floor, and someone said “hey have you considered getting a different one?” it’d be insane to get angry at them for that, yet it happens all the time with OSes. It’s just a tool. You don’t owe allegiance to an OS.
You must’ve kept the button pressed too long. Oh well.
No harm done
I’m working on that
If even MS themselves calls it “benefits”, why not enable it for all by default?
Because fuck you.
Why is this a topic at all? Don’t you own your machine?
I’m surprised I own my shoes at this point. Any tech bros wanna take care of that with an app?
Hell yeah, it’s about time somebody designs a pair of shoes that automatically tighten themselves to fit snugly around any foot. However, by default the shoes will be way too wide for anyone to use before they install an app and give away all their personal information including location, ethnicity, DOB, etc., so that an AI can guess their foot size.
C’mon bro, its nowhere near that facile although I’ll concede that once people are more aware of the options, it might help get things going in the right direction. Bes positive and joyfully share you expertise ;)
You Linux supremecists are so edgy…
I use Linux sometimes, too… But like… This shit is getting so old.
We get it, you like Linux. Now let people talk about other platforms without constantly talking about your platform.
I only have Linux on my servers at home and at work, as well as on my laptop, and I agree with that, it’s arrogant and getting so damn old. Lemmy has such a boner for Linux and loves shoving it in everyone’s faces.
You do realize that Lemmy is an opensource platform, which runs on Linux, and is maintained by volunteers who are passionate about Linux? Does it really come as surprise that Lemmy is full of Linux enthusiasts?
If you don’t like all the Linux talk here, feel free to move to a proprietary social network instead, maybe one with a red alien logo or with a blue ‘f’…
Being an enthusiast doesn’t mean you have to preach about it everywhere you go. This post isn’t talking about Linux whatsoever. They’re starting to remind me of religious nuts that always make everything about their religion.
your platform.
You do realize you’re posting this on a opensource platform, which runs on Linux, and is maintained by volunteers who are enthusiastic about this stuff?
If you don’t like all the Linux talk here, feel free to move to a proprietary platform instead, maybe one with a red alien logo…
Come on now, Windows is technology too. It’s valid to be a Windows peasant here, this isn’t Linuxcirclejerk.
People like you make me so fucking embarrassed to be a Linux user.
So you’re claiming that all of Lemmy is a Linux only community?
Because Linux, by its very nature, is the solution to these kinds problems, but if you insist on suffering through using Windows thats on you.
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So what? I was not talking about situations where there is vendor lock-in. I needed Windows for Photoshop in the past, I’m not that dumb.
I’m talking specifically about stuff like ads, privacy, unremovable bloatware, forced logins and such. And I stand by what I said: Linux by its very nature will not have these issues. And its very reasonable for people to recommend it in face of those.
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If you use Windows you know they will re-enable that on the next update, after you took your time turning all the garbage off. That was the final drop in the bucket for me to switch away from Windows some years ago actually.
I do agree Windows can be pretty decent when you do that, but if I am to have all this work to set up my machine, and then having them undo it, then I might as well learn a system that actually does what I tell it to.
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It’s good, but you can’t know for sure if you removed all bloatware. Also if you install updates you can easily miss newly added ones.
Windows is like Reddit. There is more content and users, but we use Lemmy for a reason. So I’m not surprised that many people joke about GNU/Linux in this thread. GNU/Linux is not for everyone, but so do Lemmy.
Photoshop works in Fedora ;)
I got it to work on Ubuntu back then, but it was annoying as hell.
Why Fedora exactly? Genuinely curious!
I hope you’ve got backup solution if Windows ever prevents you from working.
It must be important if you’re prioritizing it over your software freedom…
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Hopefully a reinstall is the most you ever need and there is no chance Microsoft would ever happen to make changes that shaft you.
Software freedom is about being in control over your own computing. If being in control of your research and the results is important then I think it should be important to you too.
I consider myself like a smoker telling you smoking causes cancer in regards to my use of proprietary software. I am proud of the efforts I’ve made over the years to reduce using proprietary software.
Can’t be in control of your own computing if you can’t do your computing at all. From their responses, it’s clear that Linux is not supported for hardware essential to their workflow. How is this difficult to understand?
Last time I used Linux it came with its own bag of problems like hunting down drivers and incompatibility issues and random bugs that wouldn’t let me use the wifi without digging up solutions in some obscure forum. Maybe it’s not the case anymore but I don’t hear many people lauding it for its competitive UX and ease of use.
GNOME’s UX has come a looong way in just like 3 years.
I assume the same is true for KDE now that Valve is investing money in it.
I hope so! Nothing against Linux but it did feel a bit like a raw steak at times 😅
I understand how it can feel that way when you are not used to Linux. I felt the same way in the beggining when I was learning it.
Huh, my experience is the exact opposite. On Linux there was zero hunting for drivers of any kind. At all. They were all just included in the Linux kernel. Out of the box drivers for everything I had.
On windows it was: ok first I need my motherboard chipset driver, now I need my WiFi driver, and now my graphics driver, now the driver for this microphone, and finally the driver for this controller.
Each of which I had to search online for the right website, download an installer, run an installer, and delete the installer afterwards.
To me, that was a much more clunky experience.
Another fosstard
I mean… Linux does solve the problem described. Why pay for a platform with the problem when the solution is free?
You think i’m paying for windows?
You’ve never bought a laptop with Windows?
But aside from that, even if you downloaded an ISO then cracked it, you’re still paying for it in the same way you pay for Google services - with your personal information.
In Soviet Russia, Windows pay for you!
Edit: also…fix you!
Edit: I wonder which is the bigger threat to the average Russian: windows or Ween-dows PeeCee…? You decide
Let just say you don’t pay… with money.
Most people who think Windows came with the computer for free don’t know that the licence cost is baked into the total cost.
Honestly, your bitching was far more intrusive than this unharmful joke. That joke was actually funny.
You’re either being intellectually disingenuous, or you’re new to Lemmy. Every goddamn thread about Windows here ends up littered with “jokes” about how great Linux is, and how shitty Windows is.
It’s beyond exhausting at this point.
And the goddamn distros can’t even support a fingerprint reader nor a nvidia card, or forces you to do some terminal voodoo to make the thing work, or crashes without warning after an update.
But somehow that’s better than Windows. -_-
to be fair its not Linux that doesnt support nvidia, its the other way around.
and it works fine if you dont have more specific use cases.
It’s Nvidia that has poor support for some standards, not the other way around.
And it’s not like people don’t run into issues, probably more often, with Windows update. The last time I updated Windows my audio got fucked and even rolling back the update and reinstalling audio drivers didn’t work. I had to reinstall windows entirely, which takes a bizarrely long time.
And yeah, IMO, it’s far better than Windows, and it’s not even close. But it’s just a tool. Use Windows if you want to use Windows.
Windows fanboys will justify anything just because it locks them in and forces them to use it. People with stockholm syndrone justifying terrible anti-consumer decisions by Microsoft are the ones really exhausting me.
Use it if you want to, or need to, but don’t be mad at the people actually trying to come up with and improve the solutions we have.
I just want a PC that works and linux ain’t it hun
Funny how my Linux PC works flawlessly without intervention then.
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Funny, this is my main gripe with Windows. It doesn’t just work in the same way Linux does. I get an update, it takes 5-25 seconds and everything still works, every time.
I get a Windows update and I’m filled with dread crossing my fingers everything still works when it finally reboots, and that it hasn’t “accidentally” reset all the telemetry settings I turned off.
Plus not having to hunt for drivers and use weird installers for software that I have to hunt for online. Some windows listening to my dark mode preference and others not, etc etc.
To me, my PC is just a tool. I don’t care what runs on it, as long as it works reliably, is intuitive, looks cohesive, and doesn’t get in my way. Windows unfortunately doesn’t hold up to that.
Again with the WU psychosis, get new material
Too bad?
Was half-expecting Rick Astley ngl
Beat me to it!
Does this also impact Apple, will they also need to allow removing Safari? If yes, is it possible that they might allow removing other things like iMessage and Apple TV?
On macOS it’s always been possible to remove built in apps. To do so now though requires disabling SIP and mounting as R/W. Then you can use something like this to remove all traces https://freemacsoft.net/appcleaner/
They regenerate after an update, there is also a way to remove Edge on Windows by manually running the uninstaller from the terminal with some options, but that doesn’t change the fact that it’s not easy and you can’t just uninstall it like any other app.
I give it less than a year before this goes the way of the Windows 10 start menu registry tweak.
Still waiting for that LTSC
A reminder that you own your machine. If you chose the paid-spyware OS, why complain about it?
Linux users when somebody doesn’t type out an essay to install a program
Uhm actually its very easy you just
Sudo apt ant sofo lror irir 8 6 9 7778 k j hofor -76
And press enter and debug your missing dependencies for the next two weeks, I mean how hard is that?
You’re so incredibly dumb. Smart people know that you should really write a script with vim and then run it. I only had to restart my computer once before saving!
I once got stuck in vim. I had to kill it. Then I uninstalled it.
I wish Nano was the default on everything. The fact that Git on Windows uses Vim is so incredibly annoying.
More like:
Search in the app store, press install.
As opposed to the absolute nightmare of finding executables on random websites, downloading them, running an installer program, pressing next a bunch of times, then deleting the installer afterwards.
App management is something Linux does very well, and Windows very poorly.
On no other OS is it the norm to do it like you’re expected to do it on Windows.
I can chat about bad points in Linux all day, I’m not blind to the faults of any of these OSes, but a Windows user saying installing software on Linux is hard really does have me giggling
I’m afraid Linux is more complex for most regular people.
Yes, a lot of stuff is managed by a package manager (though you have to decide between 2-3 options of the same app, as one is flatpak and one is something else you’ve never come across before) and when that works, it’s great. But it’s far from comprehensive.
I’d rather press ‘next’ or ‘ok’ a few times than have to learn an entirely new and non-intuituve language and interface just to add an app or driver that is among the 20% of stuff that still won’t just work out the box.
I really don’t know where you’re getting this impression from.
I search for software. It’s there, I see an install button. I press it. You can click a drop down to pick between, say, an RPM package or a flatpak, but it’s not something a normal user would do.
Installing windows programs, as I’ve already said, is a lot more than just pressing ok. It relies on knowing what site to pick, finding the download page, picking the right installer, finding the exe you downloaded, going through the install wizard, deleting the installer after.
It’s not easier. IMO app management is the biggest weakness of Windows. There’s a reason genuinely no other OS has that as the standard way to install programs.
I don’t understand the part about learning a new language either? What? I open the app store, I search, I press install. There’s no need for multiple languages? And the interface is a lot more intuitive than finding the right download on every single website, that all look different, and going through every installer, most of which look different.
Seriously, if you were talking about idk, HDR or gaming (outside of emulation where it’s a solid Linux win) or something, I’d be agreeing with you and saying Windows is easier, despite Valve getting Linux pretty close.
But installing programs? Nah, Windows is the one that’s a complicated clusterfuck. People are just used to it so they don’t really think about it.
I’m getting this impression as someone who just installed Linux mint, because people like yourself who say there won’t be problems and it will all just work. It didn’t. There were problems, and there still are.
Even on Linux I still have to search online for info and for what app to install to meet my needs. Which also relies on knowing what site to trust, and what info you find varies hugely from helpful to incomprehensible for a beginner. Especially when there’s a hundred unfamiliar options.
The whole finding downloading and installing something on windows is straightforward for most people. Search, go to site, select, install, follow instructions. Done. I’m not sure why you’re making it sound like some frought and impenetrable nightmare. There’s also the windows app store for (like the mint package manager) about 80% of stuff.
Honestly, I don’t find the package manager much different, since I still need to search for something (to identify the right software / tool etc). And hope it’s included in the package manager. Then I’m asked to approve some dependencys that I have no way, as a beginner, of evaluating of they’re safe or not. So just click ok, and just have to trust the package manager / software (Another click) is safe. No different to me that some downloaded executable on windows.
And as for the different versions, yes, I mean why are there two or three versions of Firefox when I search in the Mint package manager? What makes flatpak ine different from the other one? How can I evaluate ? As a new user, even the descriptions don’t help.
And when I say a new language, I’m talking about having to go into the terminal (?) And enter a bunch of unfamiliar commands that I have no idea if they’re the right or safe thing to do, In order to be able to get something to work. In my case a switch pro controller and an Xbox one controller (when the pro didn’t work). Both of which just work on windows. That’s just one example, and I don’t think it’s an especially unique or niche one for someone coming from windows. Got them to work on Yuzu, but wouldn’t work with a browser for some reason.
To be clear, I’m not dissing Linux (nor you!) I just don’t believe it’s easier that Windows, nor does it yet feel ready to help a new user do fairly ‘normal’ stuff they might want to. I also recently started using a Mac, and while that was laerning curve, it was still far more novice friendly than Mint. In my experience.
Tbf Microsoft wants you to rely on their store to install things. People just don’t trust it, for obvious reasons.
That’s true. And if they actually did more vetting of their app store I’d probably use it!
But right now it seems to be full of software that isn’t updated as frequently as the separate installers for some reason, missing almost all apps, or has open source apps uploaded by someone who isn’t the original developer, and charging money for it…
Even if they vetted their apps properly, I’d still not want to use it tbh. Microsoft is untrustworthy, even from a “massive corporation” perspective.
What I do to install software on my Linux PC:
Open the app store. Search. Click install. Done.
Updates are done through the same app store that I used to install it.
What I do to install software on my Windows PC:
Open my web browser. Search for the software. Pick the right website (with most software this is easy, for some software it’s not immediately clear, be careful not to download from a dodgy site). Navigate to the downloads page. Pick 64-bit Windows (not Mac!). Press download. Open file explorer. Navigate to Downloads. Find the installer exe. Double click. Go through the installer. Press next/tick/untick options. Press finish. Go back to the file explorer, delete the installer exe. Go to my desktop, delete the shortcut it has added (I hate it how every installer seems to do this!)
Updates are either done when I open the app and it does a check, which is frustrating, when I open an app I want it to open, I don’t want to see a prompt to update, OR through a separate updater app that runs at startup, making my PC sluggish at boot.
There are shortcomings in Linux, and there are things Windows does pretty well. It’s funny that you picked the thing Linux is literally the best at hands down, and Windows is the worst at, hands down. It’d be like if you complained about MacOS not being visually consistent lol
You should have picked something that Linux is genuinely bad at, like HDR support or something.
