The discussion has never been about what you need to do, the discussion has been about if guns are a necessity, the answer is no and you keep proving that it’s mental healthcare that is a necessity. If you only want a gun so you can protect yourself then it’s not a necessity, not having to protect yourself is the necessity.
Except that the only thing that kept me from getting a possible fatal wound was the presence of a firearm OR his will. Neither of us know how that would’ve played out, but I know what I’d bet on and it is me defending my goddamn self like I did. You can make assumptions as well as I can, but neither of us know. The discussion on guns being a necessity? The answer is yes. Now we’re at an impass. Protecting yourself is a necessity depending on locale and also “not being a victim.”
We need to solve those by fixing the actual poblems not just “guns gone problems still there everything’s fine ignore the crime.”
“Pretty much” in THIS country mass shootings only account for .001% of gun deaths. Mostly suicide. You have been misled. Furthermore we have 40,000 more devensive firearms uses than gun deaths, and 88,000 more than our rate of intentional homicides. 100k DGU, 60k total gun deaths, 12k only intentional homicide. And that is the low estimate of DGU by Harvard which had an agenda and it was to “disprove the good guy with a gun myth.” Yet, “unfortunately,” all it proved is that while Kleck and Lott accounted for defensive display, Harvard only included verifiable incidents based off police reports, and STILL “good guys with guns” defend themselves more than people even kill themselves with guns or commit crimes with them respectively.
You can look up that harvard study for yourself but you won’t anyway so I won’t bother linking.
You’re wrong my dude. Guns aren’t necessary where you are, sure, but other places are different. Not every human has an identical experience on this earth as you. You are priveleged, and you sit in your ivory tower judging those less fortunate than you. I hope one day you can learn this.
How are guns protecting people exactly? Shouldn’t the USA be exemplary instead of the worst rich country if guns were preventing anything? 🤔 Have you thought that maybe the issue also comes from people who think like you and the more firearms are accessible, the easier it is to kill someone in a moment that would just pass without any homicide happening if people didn’t have access to firearms?
Well, 100,000 defensive gun uses is more than 12,000 intentional homicides by 88,000, that’s how. That’s 88,000 times someone DID NOT become a victim of violence because THEY had a gun of their own, and that is the low estimate.
Ok, that’s the number for the USA, how does the actual crime rate compare to other countries? If the number show that even with more guns there’s more crime then it’s clear that guns aren’t the solution, isn’t it? Wouldn’t your goal be that both those number become as low as possible?
You know, there’s more to gun violence than homicides and experts agree that they’re used more for crime then self defense. Adding more and more to the mix is just repeating the cold war at a human level, it’s not fixing anything.
Here’s the thing about other countries: There are other variables! Crazy I know, but things like healthcare and wealth inequality and our shit ass school system that more often than not syphons money to the school board while the rest of the country suffers, actually also play a part. Funny how that works.
Source on that? Cause by everything I’ve seen the estimate of crime with gun regardless of injury is 80,000/yr which is still less than 100,000.
Alright, I’m glad to see that we agree that what’s needed isn’t guns then, it’s to solve the underlying issues. Happy to see you changed your mind. Good talk! Have fun!
Guns aren’t necessary where you are, sure, but other places are different. Not every human has an identical experience on this earth as you. You are priveleged, and you sit in your ivory tower judging those less fortunate than you. I hope one day you can learn this.
Again, no, you didn’t prove that guns are a necessity.
Eating is a necessity, clothings are a necessity, people in your own country don’t have a gun and make it through life and die of natural causes, that’s all the proof you need to know that no, guns aren’t a necessity, they’re a desire that you and others have.
To make it so you don’t desire them what is needed is a solution to the social issues that make you want a gun.
Another proof that guns aren’t necessary for that is that there’s already more guns in the USA than people and it didn’t stop that person from trying to attack you even though odds were that you would be carrying. Increasing the number of people who own or carry a gun won’t improve things, there’s already more than in any other rich country and the issue is still worse.
We’re not even talking about the statistical improbability of the situation you’re basing your opinion on, if you go by that logic you should be arguing in favor of getting rid of all guns because of the odds that you’ll get murdered with one and you should never take a car ever again because of the odds that you’ll get into an accident and you shouldn’t have a kid because of the odds that your girlfriend will die in labor or your kid will die at a young age (especially in your country in both cases) and the list goes on and on…
Is a fire extinguisher a necessity when there is no fire? Is a hammer a necessity when you have no nails? No, but you can’t conjure one out of your asshole when you do need one. You have to be prepared and have the tool for the job before you need it or you’re shit out of luck. It’s kinda like that.
Plenty of people who have food also die, does that mean food isn’t a necessity? You don’t need food currently if you aren’t currently hungry, does that make it not a necessity?
If it isn’t needed for defense then a ban also isn’t needed, because crime is what you “defense” from, so if there is no crime why ban them? Let the IDPA continue.
odds were that you would be carrying.
Actually, though rates of gun ownership are growing (fastest growing new groups are black women, women [all], and gays), still only less than 50% actually owns all those guns, and less than 25% carry them. Odds are that I wouldn’t have one even in America, but he bet wrong. Don’t get me wrong, that 50% owns more guns and ammo then your country’s entire military, but that is still only 50% of people and not quite even that, it’s more like 48%. Turns out though, yeah, criminals aren’t too happy about having one pointed at 'em, and I know you support the violent criminals bent on victimizing people they perceive as weaker, but I’m on the other side.
because of the odds that you’ll get murdered with one
See, that’s the thing, this isn’t true. Our defensive gun use per year is comservatively estimated by Harvard (in an anti gun hit piece against the “myth” of the “good guy with a gun”) at 100,000 per year. Well, our rate of intentional firearm homicide is only 12,000 a year. I believe you’ll find that 100,000> 12,000 by 88,000.
never take a car ever again because of the odds that you’ll get into an accident
Been in 4, used to drive pizza. Airbags, seatbelts. Manual safeties, trigger safties, grip safties, not pointing the gun at things that aren’t targets, not putting your finger on the trigger until you’re ready to fire. Safties all around.
You’re so hell bent on defending your right to have a gun that you forget the definition of words. Again, if they were necessary then you wouldn’t have people around you that didn’t own them because all of them would be dead, that’s what needing something implies. Stop eating food for a couple of months and you’ll understand the difference between desires and needs.
Just because the ownership rate is going up doesn’t mean people need one, it could simply mean people are scared and the population is divided so they try to find a way to reassure themselves, just like you’re doing, but the need is to solve the underlying issue.
Like someone who’s depressed, they can start taking anti depressants and live like that for the rest of their life, but what they actually need is help to solve the underlying issue, if that doesn’t happen all that leads to is more and more people on anti depressants.
It had been going down from '93-2016 and gun sales were rising. Remind me, did anything else happen in this country in and since 2016? Anything that maybe could have contributed to violence like political or economic issues? There are more than one variable at play in real life situations, not everything can be boiled down to “gun,” it’s the same thinking as the racists who try to boil down everything to “black,” it’s just narrow minded and refusing to look at the bigger picture, like the actual causes of violence in the case of guns, or overpolicing of black neighborhoods because of racist police.
Lmao people do die, every single day, because they were the victim of a violent crime and lacked the appropriate defensive tools. That fits your definition of “need” which hinges solely on survival. By that logic, literally all anyone ever needs is food, water, and shelter, even when said shelter is actively on fire from the food you cooked, then they don’t need a fire extinguisher, because it isn’t potable, edible, nor good building material. You’re being obtuse and you know it lol.
Glad to see you understand that what’s a necessity is to solve the other issues that lead to violence, so we agree that guns aren’t a necessity to the vast majority of people, some just make the choice to want a gun to protect themselves while others don’t (proof that guns aren’t needed).
Lol, no, me making fun of your ridiculous definition of “need” is the complete opposite of agreeing. I prefer the definition the rest of the world uses, y’know, the nondelusional people.
noun A condition or situation in which something must be supplied in order for a certain condition to be maintained or a desired state to be achieved.
noun Something required or wanted; a requisite.
noun Necessity; obligation.
noun A condition of poverty or misfortune.
intransitive verb To be under the necessity of or the obligation to.
intransitive verb To have need of; require.
intransitive verb To have an obligation (to do something).
intransitive verb To be subject (to an action) by obligation.
intransitive verb To want to be subject to.
intransitive verb To be in need or want.
intransitive verb To be necessary.
Not one of those mentions “will die without.” That’s you.You aren’t the arbiter of definitions no matter what your delusions of grandeur convince you of.
The discussion has never been about what you need to do, the discussion has been about if guns are a necessity, the answer is no and you keep proving that it’s mental healthcare that is a necessity. If you only want a gun so you can protect yourself then it’s not a necessity, not having to protect yourself is the necessity.
Except that the only thing that kept me from getting a possible fatal wound was the presence of a firearm OR his will. Neither of us know how that would’ve played out, but I know what I’d bet on and it is me defending my goddamn self like I did. You can make assumptions as well as I can, but neither of us know. The discussion on guns being a necessity? The answer is yes. Now we’re at an impass. Protecting yourself is a necessity depending on locale and also “not being a victim.”
I sure hope one day you don’t accidentally kill a family member. I hope no kid gets hold of your gun and shoots up their school with it.
These things happen, but pretty much only in America. How much do you need mass shootings?
Edit: Before you post some stats about gun crimes in other countries as a response that ignores my point, note that I said “pretty much”.
Rule #3, confirm your target.
No kids. Don’t want em. World is fucked.
We need to solve those by fixing the actual poblems not just “guns gone problems still there everything’s fine ignore the crime.”
“Pretty much” in THIS country mass shootings only account for .001% of gun deaths. Mostly suicide. You have been misled. Furthermore we have 40,000 more devensive firearms uses than gun deaths, and 88,000 more than our rate of intentional homicides. 100k DGU, 60k total gun deaths, 12k only intentional homicide. And that is the low estimate of DGU by Harvard which had an agenda and it was to “disprove the good guy with a gun myth.” Yet, “unfortunately,” all it proved is that while Kleck and Lott accounted for defensive display, Harvard only included verifiable incidents based off police reports, and STILL “good guys with guns” defend themselves more than people even kill themselves with guns or commit crimes with them respectively.
source on mass shooting rarity.
You can look up that harvard study for yourself but you won’t anyway so I won’t bother linking.
You’re wrong my dude. Guns aren’t necessary where you are, sure, but other places are different. Not every human has an identical experience on this earth as you. You are priveleged, and you sit in your ivory tower judging those less fortunate than you. I hope one day you can learn this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
How are guns protecting people exactly? Shouldn’t the USA be exemplary instead of the worst rich country if guns were preventing anything? 🤔 Have you thought that maybe the issue also comes from people who think like you and the more firearms are accessible, the easier it is to kill someone in a moment that would just pass without any homicide happening if people didn’t have access to firearms?
Well, 100,000 defensive gun uses is more than 12,000 intentional homicides by 88,000, that’s how. That’s 88,000 times someone DID NOT become a victim of violence because THEY had a gun of their own, and that is the low estimate.
Ok, that’s the number for the USA, how does the actual crime rate compare to other countries? If the number show that even with more guns there’s more crime then it’s clear that guns aren’t the solution, isn’t it? Wouldn’t your goal be that both those number become as low as possible?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
You know, there’s more to gun violence than homicides and experts agree that they’re used more for crime then self defense. Adding more and more to the mix is just repeating the cold war at a human level, it’s not fixing anything.
Here’s the thing about other countries: There are other variables! Crazy I know, but things like healthcare and wealth inequality and our shit ass school system that more often than not syphons money to the school board while the rest of the country suffers, actually also play a part. Funny how that works.
Source on that? Cause by everything I’ve seen the estimate of crime with gun regardless of injury is 80,000/yr which is still less than 100,000.
Alright, I’m glad to see that we agree that what’s needed isn’t guns then, it’s to solve the underlying issues. Happy to see you changed your mind. Good talk! Have fun!
Oh, where have I lived in my life?
Your mom’s basement.
Oh good one!
I know.
Again, no, you didn’t prove that guns are a necessity.
Eating is a necessity, clothings are a necessity, people in your own country don’t have a gun and make it through life and die of natural causes, that’s all the proof you need to know that no, guns aren’t a necessity, they’re a desire that you and others have.
To make it so you don’t desire them what is needed is a solution to the social issues that make you want a gun.
Another proof that guns aren’t necessary for that is that there’s already more guns in the USA than people and it didn’t stop that person from trying to attack you even though odds were that you would be carrying. Increasing the number of people who own or carry a gun won’t improve things, there’s already more than in any other rich country and the issue is still worse.
We’re not even talking about the statistical improbability of the situation you’re basing your opinion on, if you go by that logic you should be arguing in favor of getting rid of all guns because of the odds that you’ll get murdered with one and you should never take a car ever again because of the odds that you’ll get into an accident and you shouldn’t have a kid because of the odds that your girlfriend will die in labor or your kid will die at a young age (especially in your country in both cases) and the list goes on and on…
Is a fire extinguisher a necessity when there is no fire? Is a hammer a necessity when you have no nails? No, but you can’t conjure one out of your asshole when you do need one. You have to be prepared and have the tool for the job before you need it or you’re shit out of luck. It’s kinda like that.
Plenty of people who have food also die, does that mean food isn’t a necessity? You don’t need food currently if you aren’t currently hungry, does that make it not a necessity?
If it isn’t needed for defense then a ban also isn’t needed, because crime is what you “defense” from, so if there is no crime why ban them? Let the IDPA continue.
Actually, though rates of gun ownership are growing (fastest growing new groups are black women, women [all], and gays), still only less than 50% actually owns all those guns, and less than 25% carry them. Odds are that I wouldn’t have one even in America, but he bet wrong. Don’t get me wrong, that 50% owns more guns and ammo then your country’s entire military, but that is still only 50% of people and not quite even that, it’s more like 48%. Turns out though, yeah, criminals aren’t too happy about having one pointed at 'em, and I know you support the violent criminals bent on victimizing people they perceive as weaker, but I’m on the other side.
See, that’s the thing, this isn’t true. Our defensive gun use per year is comservatively estimated by Harvard (in an anti gun hit piece against the “myth” of the “good guy with a gun”) at 100,000 per year. Well, our rate of intentional firearm homicide is only 12,000 a year. I believe you’ll find that 100,000> 12,000 by 88,000.
Been in 4, used to drive pizza. Airbags, seatbelts. Manual safeties, trigger safties, grip safties, not pointing the gun at things that aren’t targets, not putting your finger on the trigger until you’re ready to fire. Safties all around.
Stopped reading. I agree.
But you realise that the homicide rate is going up, not down, while gun ownership is going up, right?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
You’re so hell bent on defending your right to have a gun that you forget the definition of words. Again, if they were necessary then you wouldn’t have people around you that didn’t own them because all of them would be dead, that’s what needing something implies. Stop eating food for a couple of months and you’ll understand the difference between desires and needs.
Just because the ownership rate is going up doesn’t mean people need one, it could simply mean people are scared and the population is divided so they try to find a way to reassure themselves, just like you’re doing, but the need is to solve the underlying issue.
Like someone who’s depressed, they can start taking anti depressants and live like that for the rest of their life, but what they actually need is help to solve the underlying issue, if that doesn’t happen all that leads to is more and more people on anti depressants.
It had been going down from '93-2016 and gun sales were rising. Remind me, did anything else happen in this country in and since 2016? Anything that maybe could have contributed to violence like political or economic issues? There are more than one variable at play in real life situations, not everything can be boiled down to “gun,” it’s the same thinking as the racists who try to boil down everything to “black,” it’s just narrow minded and refusing to look at the bigger picture, like the actual causes of violence in the case of guns, or overpolicing of black neighborhoods because of racist police.
Lmao people do die, every single day, because they were the victim of a violent crime and lacked the appropriate defensive tools. That fits your definition of “need” which hinges solely on survival. By that logic, literally all anyone ever needs is food, water, and shelter, even when said shelter is actively on fire from the food you cooked, then they don’t need a fire extinguisher, because it isn’t potable, edible, nor good building material. You’re being obtuse and you know it lol.
Glad to see you understand that what’s a necessity is to solve the other issues that lead to violence, so we agree that guns aren’t a necessity to the vast majority of people, some just make the choice to want a gun to protect themselves while others don’t (proof that guns aren’t needed).
Good talk 👍
Lol, no, me making fun of your ridiculous definition of “need” is the complete opposite of agreeing. I prefer the definition the rest of the world uses, y’know, the nondelusional people.
https://www.wordnik.com/words/need
noun A condition or situation in which something must be supplied in order for a certain condition to be maintained or a desired state to be achieved. noun Something required or wanted; a requisite. noun Necessity; obligation. noun A condition of poverty or misfortune. intransitive verb To be under the necessity of or the obligation to. intransitive verb To have need of; require. intransitive verb To have an obligation (to do something). intransitive verb To be subject (to an action) by obligation. intransitive verb To want to be subject to. intransitive verb To be in need or want. intransitive verb To be necessary.
Not one of those mentions “will die without.” That’s you. You aren’t the arbiter of definitions no matter what your delusions of grandeur convince you of.
Yep yep, like I was saying, nice to see someone able to accept they’re wrong 👍