Wtf is wrong with people. The initial Hamas attack was bad. But Israel is now basically bulldozing Gaza and trying to turn it into a life of rubble.
In what world does that make sense? They don’t need U.S. aid or anybody else’s help doing that. We should be internationally condemning what they’re doing right now. Instead we are offering to give them money?
Am I crazy for thinking this is far far beyond a sane response. They have literally been killing children.
This isn’t a response, it’s what they wanted to do for over half a century now. Killing Palestine or shoving it to nearby countries was always the plan, Israel was just waiting for an excuse.
They needed a good casus belli, this is as good as it is gonna get for them PR-wise.
Truth is virtually no country ever denounce shit if they have something to lose doing so. Geopolitics is rooted in each nation self-interest.
On top of that, Palestinians just hasn’t been good neighbors and no country on earth want to bring the kind of chaos of taking them as refugees. So we have it. Most nations will root for Israel out of self-interest, and pretend there is no need to take refugees.
A few months ago they were literally bulldozing roads.
You are very sane.
At least on this topic.
Right. Insane. Even if they remove Gaza and all the people there from the face of this earth, all they will have accomplished is decades more coming back at them. The people of Israel are less safe than ever. Hamas did the same to their people as clearly they too are all less safe. When will this madness stop? This is disgusting and a worrying sign as we enter the AI age, that humanity just has not grown the fuck up.
I’m going to assume you’re familiar with this long, complicated conflict. If you were in Israel’s shoes, how would you respond to the Hamas attack?
Assuming you’re being genuine:
Hamas has to go. There is no stable situation leaving them in power.
We have a couple different approaches to resolving this:
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A. providing a transportation corridor from fatah controlled territory to Gaza, providing military aid to Fatah, and let them clear out hamas.
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B. Open up a large refugee camp just outside of Gaza, allow all the Gaza civilians to migrate to this new camp, screen for weapons. Once everyone who wants to leave is left, then you do the ground operations inside of old Gaza…
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C. Invite UN peacekeepers to occupy Gaza, and then run new elections under UN observation
Though I take small issue with your comment, the implication is, we can’t do anything except kill more people. We’ve tried killing them before, that didn’t work, we should try killing them harder this time. That’s not a stable situation either - unless you kill all of them. And if that’s the goal, they’re doing a bad job of it. They’re doing it too slowly
Under no circumstance will Hamas “go”. Hamas and its allies in the Palestinian resistance represent the will of the entire Palestinian people. The Palestinian authority that Israel and the west has imposed on us will crumble if it ever has to face Hamas. Palestinians will resist violently until all of Palestine is liberated. That is that.
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Not murder children
Vague. Does that mean, let them keep launching attacks against your civilians from behind human shields, or send in ground forces expecting wildly massive casualties?
Fire Netanyahu and the entire mossad for this shit tier intelligence and then fix the Gaza infrastructure.
I like the fire Netanyahu part.
So keep the status quo, allow Hamas to stay in power, and improve the infrastructure of an actively belligerent enemy? Wow what a reward you’d give them for slaughtering your people, maybe they should do it again next time they need infrastructure.
If I was Israeli I would dismantle my god forsaken cursed country and end the scourge that it has been in the region.
All in the name of defense of course. With the worlds most moral army, backed by the world’s biggest blank cheque, how could this be anything but self defense. Oh and fuck those journalists and their families.
What is the relevance of this to the conversation? Do you know?
Hey TinyPizza
Oh hi mark
“Help! The monsters I’ve created are killing me!”, cried the imperialist.
Two years from now there will be no Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank and the world won’t do shit about it
A few hundred from the total amount of dead civilians in Ukraine.
But Russian killing bad, Israeli killing good apparently.
Fuck this empire
I don’t understand why this is controversial. I’m not pro-palestine by any definition - nor anti, but I am very much opposed to one-sided conquests.
Hamas has Jewish eradication as part of its founding charter. I’m not sure this qualifies a one sided fight.
But checking the numbers of civilian deaths and injured count on both sides, even before the 7th of October paints a slightly different picture, don’t you think?
155K injured Palestinians vs 6K Israelis. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
26 times more injured, don’t you think that’s a bit extreme?
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Israel is a terrorist state. Period.
Do you think terrorist means attacking civilians? Usually terrorism had the purpose of inciting fear on the larger side in an asymmetric conflict. Israel seems to be doing this moreso to get rid of the population, or at least to get at Hamas with absurdly low regard for civilians. Rather than making the population fearful.
It’s “funny” how the same people always crying about being victim of religious discrimination, genocide, the Holocaust (all true things, that’s not my point) are also the ones doing the same to people of another religion, yet don’t think they’re wrong…
I think your comment is a great example of how wording matters. The use of “people” is vague enough to mean all jews or the Isreali government. One context makes your comment antisemitic while the other doesn’t. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and only point out that the distinction is necessary because the Isreali government does not represent all jews. The government is hypocritical and you can find jews, even in Isreal, being critical of that hypocrisy.
You’re totally right.
In this context, my “people” would refer to “any Jewish person that approves of what’s going on”
And my “what’s going on” here doesn’t refer to the atrocities Hamas committed, and it doesn’t refer to wanting to defend themselves either. It refers to the acts of genocide going on, and the indiscriminate killing of civilians.
I have particular contempt for oppressed peoples that go on to oppress others when given the chance.
Israel announced right at the start that its target is to eliminate Hamas and PIJ.
Since there are:
- About 30,000-40,000 Hamas members in the Al-Qassam Brigades and
- About 6,000 members in the PIJ and
- Assuming 1 civilian casualty per 3 combative casualties
Then unless something substantial changes, the death toll is expected to rise to around 50k-60k . This is really just the beginning.
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I guess you didnt read the article then, eh?
Benjamin Netanyahu, who has previously ruled out a cease-fire, said Thursday: “We are advancing … Nothing will stop us.”
Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of intentional violence and fear to achieve political or ideological aims. The term is used in this regard primarily to refer to intentional violence during peacetime or in the context of war against non-combatants.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
U.S Secretary of State Antony Blinken was heading to the region for talks Friday in Israel and Jordan, after President Joe Biden suggested a humanitarian “pause” in the Gaza fighting to let in aid for Palestinians and let out more foreign nationals.
Roughly 800 people — including hundreds of Palestinians with foreign passports and dozens of wounded — have been allowed to leave Gaza over the past two days, under an apparent agreement among the U.S., Egypt, Israel and Qatar, which mediates with Hamas.
But the Biden administration has pushed for Israel to let more aid into Gaza amid growing alarm in the region over the destruction and humanitarian crisis in the tiny Mediterranean enclave.
More than 3,700 Palestinian children have been killed in 25 days of fighting, and three weeks of bombings that often level large swaths of neighborhoods have driven more than half the territory’s 2.3 million people from their homes.
A senior Hamas official, Ghazi Hamad, dismissed Blinken’s visit, saying the U.S. aims “to give more cover for the vicious assault on Gaza” and “impose its own political solutions.”
The Israeli military’s chief of staff, Herzi Halevy, said his forces were encircling Gaza City from several directions and “fighting in a built-up, dense, complex area.”
The original article contains 1,332 words, the summary contains 208 words. Saved 84%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
This is an holocaust.
It seems like Israel’s position is that they will hit any valid military targets regardless of whether civilians may die as collateral damage, this is because Hamas intentionally uses civilians as human shields.
Hamas relies on the Israeli government’s aim to minimise collateral damage, and is also aware of the West‘s sensitivity towards civilian casualties. Hamas’ use of human shields is therefore likely aimed at minimising their own vulnerabilities by limiting the Israeli Defense Forces’ (IDF) freedom of action. It is also aimed at gaining diplomatic and public opinion-related leverage, by presenting Israel and the IDF as an aggressor that indiscriminately strikes civilians.
Hamas’ most common uses of human shields include:- Firing rockets, artillery, and mortars from or in proximity to heavily populated civilian areas, often from or near facilities which should be protected according to the Geneva Convention (e.g. schools, hospitals, or mosques).
- Locating military or security-related infrastructures such as HQs, bases, armouries, access routes, lathes, or defensive positions within or in proximity to civilian areas.
- Protecting terrorists’ houses and military facilities, or rescuing terrorists who were besieged or warned by the IDF.
- Combating the IDF from or in proximity to residential and commercial areas, including using civilians for intelligence gathering missions.
The alternatives to these bombings would be to allow them to keep launching attacks on Israeli civilians, or to send in ground forces into a well-prepared terrorists’ den with the home court advantage; which means very high casualties. This is fundamentally a choice between their own civilians and soldiers or civilians and soldiers on the enemy’s side.
Israel probably isn’t going to let the ones responsible get away with mass slaughter of their civilians, or stand down, until they have fundamentally changed the situation and made themselves more secure by deposing Hamas and/or annexing territory.
I suspect all those who call Israel a “terrorist state” aren’t accurately imagining themselves in their shoes. I’d like to hear what viable options the critics would choose instead if they were calling the shots there and wanted to keep their people safe.
And I bet Hamas or whatever terror group emerges out of that will have an easy time finding recruits.
Do you truly think that this will achieve anything other than polarising both sides? People are not animals!
History will judge them, you can’t remove such a stain easily.
Reposting this what I posted a few times here already:
Let me ask you two questions.
If Hamas is using the Palestinian people as shields and is forcefully preventing civilians from moving away from them, that makes the Palestinian people effectively hostages of Hamas. So if the Palestinian hostages happen to be near Hamas terrorists, are they acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?
Eventually, Israel will find out where the Israeli hostages are being kept. Obviously, there will be Hamas terrorists near them. Are the Israeli hostages acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?
If you answered yes to one question, and no to the other, you should ask yourself why you put different value on the lives of innocent human beings. Is it what side of a fence they are born on? What nationality they happen to have? What religion they believe in? The color of their skin?
if the Palestinian hostages happen to be near Hamas terrorists, are they acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?
Are the Israeli hostages acceptable collateral damage if Israel bombs them?I suspect both would absolutely be considered acceptable collateral damage, that is consistent with Israel’s previous Hannibal Directive, and IDF forces mortared their own Kibbutzes and bases to hit Hamas targets during the Oct 7 attack.
Interesting you presume Israel and its supporters are motivated by racism, it seems obvious to me Israel’s motivation is regarding safety. Meanwhile, the other side of this conflict is explicitly genocidal.
I’m not asking what Israel considers acceptable collateral damage, I’m asking what individuals consider acceptable collateral damage. Note that also no where in my post I presumed Israel and it’s supporters, my questions were balanced both sides and I let open which one you would find acceptable. For me personally, collateral damage on either side is not acceptable.
If you consider both sides acceptable collateral damage, congratulations you are not a racist. However, you could question your value for human life in general.
I’m not asking what Israel considers acceptable collateral damage, I’m asking what individuals consider acceptable collateral damage. Note that also no where in my post I presumed Israel and it’s supporters,
Because your question format was, “is it acceptable … if Israel bombs them?” I thought it was posed to be from the perspective of the actor making that call, apologies if I was presumptive.
For me personally, collateral damage on either side is not acceptable. … you could question your value for human life in general.
War in general devalues human life, throws lives into the furnace for political ends. Given the tactics employed in this war, not letting human shields and hostages be viable and diminishing their value seems like the least terrible option, and it is quite terrible. It’s the same principle as not negotiating with hostage-takers.
