Down voting every comment your opponent makes is such a bitch move.

I read what you said. It’s nonsense. The impact of your posts on actual leftists and also average voters is what I was addressing.

1. Me. Obviously. Since I’m bitching about it.

Yeah, “bitching” is a good description.

2. After 2016, I’m very wary of ignoring the influence of trolls on discourse.

Did I tell you to ignore it? Your mode of discourse is the problem. What I did say is that it will have the opposite effect of what you are apparently trying to achieve. The more convinced the left is that the Democrats hold them in contempt, the more they will see Democrats and Republicans as two sides of the same coin. You are pushing people away.

For decades it was absolutely true that there was almost no difference between the two parties, each competing to out-neoliberal the other. Biden has inched the Democrats left, and Trump has taken the Republicans full fascist. That’s what you should focus on.

And you think that is evidence of something? The exit polling was crystal clear. Bernie supporters overwhelmingly voted for Hillary in 2016 and for Biden in 2020. Who the fuck cares what online trolls say?

In the case where leftists might say they won’t vote for Biden, odds are that they are venting or pushing for a better candidate. When it’s Trump or Biden, most will come around unless some idiot causes them to harden their position. That’s pretty much the standard human reaction to this kind of post.

If you are really concerned that the left won’t show for Biden, there are ways of approaching the topic that aren’t designed to alienate. You are far more likely to push people away than convince them to vote for Biden with your tone-deaf chastisements.

You might have fooled yourself that this is about helping Biden win, but that’s bullshit. You are scratching an itch to declare your moral and intellectual superiority to the Internet. You don’t give a flying fuck about the election, you just want to be smug. If you really cared about the election then you would find a better approach.

Oh, fuck off with this bullshit. Anyone politically conscious enough to call themselves a leftist is overwhelmingly more likely to cast a Biden vote than pretty much any other group you could carve out.

The left tells centrist morons how to appeal to average Americans. Centrist morons ignore the left. Average Americans stay home on election day. Centrist morons assume it’s because they’re leftists since the leftists warned them .

It’s bad enough the left has to keep voting for establishment goons. It’s intolerable that we are the first place they look for a scapegoat when they fall on their fat asses. Hillary lost because of Hillary, and that’s on the Democratic establishment and primary voters who nominated an arrogant hag.

Sorry I participated in the grizzley murder of your loved ones, but don’t forget to vote for me this November! You wouldn’t want us to blame you of the other guy wins!

If the squad gives the establishment the tiniest quote that’s negative towards Biden and then Biden loses, the establishment will lay the entire blame for Trump on the left, the media will back them up, and the American electorate will swallow it. This is a time for progressives to let the establishment sink or swim on their own, not to provide an easy scapegoat.

The left has got to learn to let it’s politicians be politicians. What works for an activist doesn’t work for someone in public office.

Europe is selling new bonds all the time, and the price buyers will be willing to pay for them will fall.

I think you are assuming way to much rationality on the part of Republican voters. Republican politicians will just blame the Democrats, immigrants, and DEI for the failures, and Republican voters will eat it up.

There is a surprising variety among even those who call themselves Marxists or anarchists. Some are way more practical than others. Marx was first and foremost a critic of capitalism, and his criticisms were way ahead of their time and right on the money. Anarchism covers a whole lot of ground that I wouldn’t consider anarchism myself. The umbrella basis for anarchism is anti-authoritarianism. To me, that makes them less extreme than authoritarian socialists like in the Soviet Union or China. I’d consider myself an anarchist, but only in the margins that realize that government does play a critical role in establishing and defending freedoms.

I don’t really think you can say for sure who has a better team

Really? Just look at how many members of Trump’s campaign and whitehouse staff have been charged or convicted with felonies. Look at how fast he went through chiefs of staff. Look at who is running his campaign today.

You got Trump right as a reactionary, but he is in no way a neoliberal. Neoliberals are not my cup of tea, but they are absolutely nuts for things like civility, following established norms, inclusiveness, immigration, and free trade.

Biden is a lifelong neoliberal who has miraculously made some pretty major moves away from neoliberal policies. It’s a shame the term “Bidenomics” flopped, because there really is something to it. The Biden labor department has made significant changes to aid in unionization. The Chips Act and Inflation Reduction Act have brought a lot of key manufacturing back to the US, which is the antithesis of neoliberal doctrine.

Trump’s economy was a disaster even before COVID hit. Supply chain issues started with his tariff war, unemployment was already growing, and inflation was already speeding up.

Even a Biden 20 years younger wouldn’t be my choice of president but, against Trump, there is no contest.

If we toss aside issues of ideology to focus just on technical ability to perform, I think you are missing a key factor. Electing a president is also electing the administration, and a president can only be as good as the people they surround themselves with. Biden knows how to assemble a solid team, while Trump doesn’t. Trump is also incapable of listening to food advice, even in the rare instance where he allows it to be given to him.

Look at the issue of the newly expanded presidential immunity. The President is sheltered from prosecution for issuing an illegal order, but his staff is not required to follow that order. Which candidate will surround themselves with people who respect the law, and which candidate will surround themselves with lackeys?

I find that foolishness is spread pretty evenly across the political spectrum. I think most people believe what they want to believe and figure the “details” will work themselves out. Anyways, here in the US, the “far left” means things like universal healthcare, which seems a lot saner to me than the alternatives.

Neither of us live or are from the USA. So I don’t think this is relevant here.

A lot of foolishness is born in the US but doesn’t stay here. It might still be relevant.

If your friend calls themselves a libertarian, then my starting assumption would be they are wrong about everything.

It’s true that Trump made some kind of declaration as President, but that was pretty much a meaningless gesture. The US actually has no official list of domestic terror organizations, only foreign. In any case, calling antifa a terrorist organization is absurd.

A quick note on libertarianism: I consider myself a libertarian, but what passes for libertarianism in the US is anything but. Libertarianism is a left wing political philosophy, while the US Libertarian party is far right. It would be more accurate to label them as anarcho-capitalist.

That’s right wing gaslighting.

The failure was in the primaries, not in voting for the only remotely sane party in a two party system.

I’ve not said anything that even borders on conspiracy theory. It seems like you just throw that label at anything you don’t, or don’t want to, understand.

Former Presidents typically have tremendous influence in their parties. Biden went from near the back of the pack to a clear first place on one super Tuesday due in large part to Obama’s influence. Every establishment friendly candidate dropped out on the same day and endorsed Biden due to deals made or brokered by Obama. Likewise, in 2016, Hillary had the machinery of the DNC behind her candidacy long before the primary even began. Leadership in the DNC, DCCC, and a myriad of other organizations that collectively make up the Democratic party is chosen largely through back room deals and endorsements. Then there are the lobiests, Democratic consultants, and wealthy interests who all benefit from their relationships with former presidents. Soft power may be difficult to nail down, but is undeniably a huge driver of Democratic leadership.

It’s weird that you ignore the power balance, and all the other credible accusations. LOL, yeah, his friendship with Epstein looks bad. I never said it was proof of anything, but it strains credulity to think that he wasn’t involved. It’s also politics, so we need Democrats with better judgement.

You still seem to think I’m making a both sides argument and trying to draw some equivalence. My point is that Democrats are unnecessarily burdening themselves by tacitly excusing bad behavior from it’s leadership. The Republicans are shit from top to bottom. Democrats have other choices.

Clinton is irrelevant in the national conversation. He is not irrelevant in Democratic leadership.

Epstein was connected with plenty of people from both parties, and in ways that implicate, not just associate. Bill is just the biggest example. There is no vast conspiracy to bury the story, but rather a tacit understanding in mainstream media that this story is radioactive and best left alone. Better Democrats wouldn’t have put us in this position.

Also relevant is the fact that Biden appears to have steered almost entirely clear of such scandal over a very long career, and he gets full credit for that. I am only aware of one purported incident, and there is enough room for doubt in it that I would defer to his otherwise clean record. Between Biden and Trump, it’s damn clear who is better. It’s just too bad that Biden is hampered in benefitting from that by a history of scandal he has nothing to do with.

That’s the whole goal of the “both sides” attack, for those who do actually deploy it. It takes an issue that people might actually care about and makes it irrelevant. A Republican that cares has no reason to abandon a sexual predator to vote for another. (Or in Hillary’s case a supporter of a sexual predator.)

Also, if anything, the attitude of the Democratic party towards Bill Clinton indicates that Democrats don’t care about sexual crimes. I don’t think it’s really that simple though.

It’s how Trump dulled the impact of the “grab 'em by the pussy” tape.

https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/09/politics/donald-trump-juanita-broaddrick-paula-jones-facebook-live-2016-election/index.html