• jet@hackertalks.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    9
    arrow-down
    24
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Literally in the article that this post is about, they said they are trying to avoid civilians. It’s blatant fucking lie, but it’s what they’re saying.

    You just said that they’re going publicly, for the destruction of all Jewish people, that contradicts the article that we’re talking about here. If they’re stated goal is the death of Jewish people, why would they try to avoid Jewish casualties, why would they say that? If it’s in their charter shouldn’t they reinforce it when they’re talking in public?

    If we’re pulling in outside sources. https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide

    • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      Nope. Quote it then if you’re so sure.

      Nothing in that article at all says they have tried to avoid casualties.

      “Israel is a country that has no place on our land,” Hamad said in an interview with Lebanese TV channel LBC on October 24, which was translated and published Wednesday by the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI). “We must remove it because it constitutes a security, military and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation. We are not ashamed to say this.”

      In the interview, Hamad said that Israel’s existence is “illogical” and that it must be wiped off all “Palestinian lands,” a term the terror group uses to mean the West Bank, Gaza and Israel, minus the Golan Heights.

      When asked whether this meant the complete annihilation of Israel, Hamas replied: “Yes, of course.”

      “We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do it twice and three times. The Al-Aqsa Deluge [the name Hamas gave its October 7 onslaught] is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth,” Hamad continued. “Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”

      “We are the victims of the occupation. Period. Therefore, nobody should blame us for the things we do. On October 7, October 10, October one-millionth, everything we do is justified,” Hamad said.

      So they intentionally attacked civilians, this dude is claiming they know they attacked civilians, they will do it again and again and again until they completely eliminate the entire nation of Israel. Which includes all Jews in the region.

      But hey, they claimed the land originally by genociding everyone that lived there too. So it’s par for the course.

      • jet@hackertalks.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        15
        ·
        1 year ago

        He also repeated the false assertion that Hamas had not intended to harm civilians, but that there were “complications” on the ground.

        From the article above

        • steventhedev@lemmy.worldOP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          21
          arrow-down
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          Finish the quote:

          Overwhelming evidence has emerged over the past three weeks of deliberate attacks against Israeli civilians, as part of the instructions given by Hamas commanders. In many cases, the terrorists went from house to house and executed or burned entire families, and some 260 civilians were massacred at an outdoor music festival.

          Your mental gymnastics are Olympic level, mate.

          • jet@hackertalks.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            arrow-down
            16
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            I’m not defending either government. They both clearly killed civilians intentionally

            They’ve both made statements they wanted to destroy the opposing government.

            Pointing that out shouldn’t be controversial.

            I gave you the relevant part of the quote, from the article, were Hamas was laying out their policy. They’re lying, but their policy as stated is equivalent to the Israeli government policy. Which is exactly what you were asking me to provide in your previous comment

            • steventhedev@lemmy.worldOP
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              15
              arrow-down
              8
              ·
              1 year ago

              Their policy is also stated in their charter, which goes beyond just killing all Israeli civilians. It says they will kill all the Jews everywhere in the world.

              But perhaps you’d prefer to see actions - Israel is currently engaged in urban combat with an enemy who intentionally uses civilian infrastructure (a war crime, by the way). There will be collateral damage from this, especially when Hamas don’t allow civilians to evacuate out of the heavy combat areas.

              Hamas on the other hand are continuing to launch rockets daily at civilian targets in Israel, intentionally targeting civilians while celebrating every rocket siren.

          • jet@hackertalks.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            4
            ·
            1 year ago

            Did you just threaten to shoot me in the head? You’re threatening violence against me for an internet discussion?

            Putting that aside, Hamas is a terrible organization, they shouldn’t exist, and they need to be deposed. I’m on board with that.

            I’m pointing out that both belligerence have taken equivalent positions, that they want to destroy the opposing government. And a lot of civilians are going to die in the middle regardless of the rhetoric.

            • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Nope. I’m just saying when things do hit the fan, that the side you are on isn’t gonna fair well.

              And no, again you are lying claiming that Hamas said anything about the government. I directly quoted them saying they intend to keep targeting civilians and completely annihilate the entire nation of Israel.

              That’s not an equivalent position in the least.

              Yes a lot of civilians will die. Mostly because Hamas keeps targeting civilians and operating military bases in civilian infrastructure like hospitals and schools. Hamas already said they don’t care about their civilians and intend to martyr them. They use civilians as shields and intentionally get them killed. That’s on purpose because they’re fucking terrorists.

              Hell they kill more Palestinian civilians than the IDF.

              • jet@hackertalks.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Which side do you think I’m on exactly?

                I’m applying critical reading skills to every news article I’m coming across.

                • Earthwormjim91@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Apparently you have not. Because the article literally directly quotes him saying

                  “We must teach Israel a lesson, and we will do it twice and three times. The Al-Aqsa Deluge [the name Hamas gave its October 7 onslaught] is just the first time, and there will be a second, a third, a fourth,” Hamad continued. “Will we have to pay a price? Yes, and we are ready to pay it. We are called a nation of martyrs, and we are proud to sacrifice martyrs.”

                  The attack where they intentionally targeted civilians. He is saying they will do again and again. They will intentionally target civilians over and over again. By his own words.

                  And saying he will sacrifice his own civilians. Like I said.

                  And

                  When asked whether this meant the complete annihilation of Israel, Hamas replied: “Yes, of course.”

                  Like I said. They want to annihilate the entire nation of Israel. Like verbatim.

                  I mean the dude literally said they would keep doing the same thing they did on Oct 7th. By name. Targeting civilians, until there is no Israeli nation. That literally means killing or forcing every Jewish civilian out of the region. Just like they did during the Muslim conquest of the region.

                  You’re very obviously on the side of Hamas given you’re outright lying about their quotes and defending their targeting of Jewish civilians. Nobody cares about your bullshit semantic arguments. Everyone can see who you are, and it doesn’t matter. Your kind will be defeated when it comes to it.

                  • jet@hackertalks.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    Here The term Israel is vague. It’s often used as both the government, the Jewish people, and the religion.

                    I don’t presume to speak for Hamas when they’re talking about the destruction of Israel. But if we take the two parts of the article together, that a Hamas spokesperson says they’re not targeting civilians, and they want to end Israel. That at least at a PR level doesn’t sound like the death of the Jewish people. So if we take those two statements quoted from Hamas in the article at face value, that would imply that in that context they’re talking about the end of the Israeli government. Which is equivalent to what the Israeli government wants, the end of Hamas government. Which is my entire point

                    I don’t want that to happen, and I don’t support Hamas I feel like I have to say that again.

    • Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Literally in the article that this post is about, they said they are trying to avoid civilians.

      Yeah… so… after them killing over 1200 Israelis, the vast majority of them civilians, everyone they could get their hands on basically, I kinda don’t trust them.

      • fiveoar@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        11
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah… so… after them killing over 5,000 Palestinians, the vast majority of them civilians, everyone they could get their hands on basically, I kinda don’t trust them.

        • anteaters@feddit.de
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          12
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          1 year ago

          everyone they could get their hands on basically,

          If that utter nonsense was true there would be 100x as many dead.