• HiddenLayer5@lemmy.mlEnglish
    2·
    10 months ago

    Even completely ignoring all the history of the region and how the current State of Israel came to be and only focusing on the present in a vacuum, there is still is a glaring contradiction that I have never heard any sort of coherent answer from people who support Israel’s actions: If you truly believe that simply having a negative opinion of Israel’s actions against Palestinians is antisemitic (or simply being a Palestinian that’s still alive is antisemitic according to too many people), then surely it also holds that both Israel’s outright killing of Palestinians and their ongoing apartheid policies preventing Palestinians from existing in the same areas as Israelis is anti-Arab right? Is being anti-Arabic somehow preferable to being antisemitic? Are Arabs not human beings and do they not deserve the same rights and protection as Jews or literally any other human? What makes it okay for Israel to be anti-Arab then?

    One of the half baked arguments I have heard is that Israel is “justified” in being anti-Arabic because “it’s in self defense against Palestinians that want to kill them,” but if you make that assertion, then what makes the other side different? Israel is certainly not just attacking the Hamas and there have been more Palestinian civilian victims than Israeli civilian victims so wouldn’t you saying that also automatically imply the inverse and equally justify the Hamas’ actions against Israel? You can’t attack someone while claiming self defense and then cry foul when they defend themselves against you.

  • MuuuaadDib@lemm.ee
    1·
    10 months ago

    The hubris and the gall of those crazy leftists, they don’t want dead babies what monsters!

  • redballooon@lemm.ee
    01·
    10 months ago

    To the leftist who is stunned by this message:

    Think of Jordan Peterson. There was a time where he was riled up against “ideologies who would kill people in the name of a higher good.” And he named examples, Stalin and Mao most prominently. For all the abstract criticisms of ideologies, he rarely distances himself from Fascism, named Hitler only very occasionally as an example.

    Now he is forethinker for the Republican Fascist party which is now normalizing the exact dehumanizing language that the Nazis used to prepared and justify their concentration camps.

    Antifascists caught his thought patterns early on and warned of him using fascist arguments much more sensitive than most people, the missing distancing from Hitler along his other prominent examples being one of them.

    Now, dear leftists, the mirror of this arguments wants to ask you if you are really only motivated by reducing human suffering and wanting peace. And if so, you cannot ignore the role of Hamas in this longtime ongoing conflict nor in this war. If you skip that, if that’s not in your mirror, it’s big time necessary to go outside your bubble. Because then chances are you are a puppet playing the propaganda trumpet for the Hamas, or otherwise playing in their hands.

    Tedious as it may be, missing distance to a terrorist group like that in a conflict like that is a big red flag.

    And just as a tedious albeit necessary disclaimer, I believe Netanyahu and quite a bunch of other Israeli actors belong in a courtroom and then in jail for their atrocities, and certainly not in power.

    • filister@lemmy.world
      1·
      10 months ago

      Every sane person just reading the news of what is happening in Gaza and the West Bank can make their own conclusions. If you really value human life no matter the religion, ethnicity or skin colour you can see a clear pattern.

      • redballooon@lemm.ee
        01·
        10 months ago

        Really? What we have in the news these days is published by the conflict parties, independent verification is almost never possible.

        • filister@lemmy.world
          1·
          10 months ago

          I don’t need the exact numbers to know how bad the situation is. I have a couple of questions for you:

          • Do you agree that the civilian casualties on the Palestinian side far exceed those on the Israeli part?
          • Do you agree that a large chunk of the population in Gaza is displaced and currently living in makeshift tents?
          • Do you agree that there is an ongoing humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza?
          • Do you agree that there is increased violence and imposed restrictions in the West bank by the IDF, and that far right settlers are persecuting Palestinians and killing them.
          • Weren’t there members of the Israeli parliament calling for nuking Gaza, to do the same in the West Bank, etc?
          • What about illegal settlements, land grab, numerous human rights violations, etc.

          I also want Hamas gone, but don’t think this is the way.

          • redballooon@lemm.ee
            01·
            10 months ago

            Yes, there is all that. As I said, I think Netanyahu and his bunch belong in jail, not in power.

            But even if this guy is out of the way, here’s a few more questions to consider:

            • Do you agree that after Oct 7th, Israels strategy of building a wall and an “iron dome” must be considered totally failed?
            • Do you agree that the Hamas can not be talked with?
            • Do you agree that in addition to the Hamas, Israel is surrounded by militant groups that want to erase the state from the map?
            • Do you agree that in the past no palestinean negotiator honestly considered a 2-state-solution?

            What are, positively speaking, Israels options? What should a moderate follower of Netanyahu do to achieve some sort of piece? I’m lost here. Do you have any ideas other than saying “not this way”?

  • rk96@lemmy.one
    01·
    10 months ago

    You know, when neo-nazis align themselves with anti israel leftists, I would say that’s not good, but apparently western “communists” kniw better then anyone, “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”, enjoy being on the same side with neo nazis, must feel great isnt it?

    • rambaroo@lemmy.world
      1·
      10 months ago

      So? Israel is on the same side as white supremacists and far right Christian extremists. Your logical faculties are garbage.

      Besides literally no one on the left is looking at Neo Nazis and saying “the enemy of the enemy is my friend”. You’re just making shit up because that’s easier than trying to defend what the IDF is actually doing right now. It’s always games and misdirection with the pro-Israel crowd.

      • rk96@lemmy.one
        01·
        10 months ago

        And communists in america align themselves with sunni salafi jihadists, your point is?

        You wrote a bunch of BS and buzzwords just tick off your “I mascaraded my jew hatered behind israel criticism”

        Sharmoota